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Teaching Alternative To Evolution Backed
Washinton Post ^ | Wednesday, May 29, 2002 | Michael A. Fletcher

Posted on 05/30/2002 7:40:53 AM PDT by Gladwin

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:34 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Two House Republicans are citing landmark education reform legislation in pressing for the adoption of a school science curriculum in their home state of Ohio that includes the teaching of an alternative to evolution.

In what both sides of the debate say is the first attempt of its kind, Reps. John A. Boehner and Steve Chabot have urged the Ohio Board of Education to consider the language in a conference report that accompanied the major education law enacted earlier this year.....


(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; intelligentdesign; msbogusvirus
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To: Virginia-American
Your reply to medved: "Maybe what you need is non-standard analysis." Getting off topic, but fwiw, there's a beautiful little monograph that develops much of the standard material in probability theory using non-standard analysis. I think it's called _Radically Elementary Probability Theory_, because the author thinks the non-standard analysis simplifies the presentation of the material. It's been awhile since I've looked at it, but I remember thinking it was a real gem.
921 posted on 06/03/2002 9:13:21 PM PDT by ConsistentLibertarian
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To: Condorman
"What is the Theory of Intelligent Design? How does it explain the fossil record? What predictions does it make? How can it be falsified? What tests, experiments, or observations are implied by the Theory of Intelligent Design that would be able to verify it?" The theory of intelligent design predicts that creatures with radically different needs will have radically different structures suited for those different needs. For example, two legged and four legged creatures would have a radically different skeletal system. The theory is falsified by the observation that two legged creatures have a skeletal system that's not well designed for their needs.
922 posted on 06/03/2002 9:17:16 PM PDT by ConsistentLibertarian
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To: Condorman
Peer review is not the same as criticism. Plato, the greatest teacher in history, seldom countered the theories of his students with a counter theory, but merely shredded their theories in order to develop their critical thinking. Many apologists for certain lines of scientific or philosophical thinking add nothing to those lines, but argue well in their defense, which is something many scientists cannot themselves do. Likewise, many critics can argue well and convincingly against a scientific theory without being required to offer a better one or a substitute one. I find it undergraduate-ish that you would maintain such a position. The greatest thinkers have often been the debunkers, who left us with a void to fill, but felt no need to fill it themselves. The debunking may come to be called a theory, but it is no less merely a debunking.

This is what Karl Marx actually did. He critiqued the work of Adam Smith and demonstrated both theoretically and practically that capitalism cannot be but a short lived system full of overwhelmingly bloody wars wherby the world would be cut up into various trading zones for the manufacturing countries to colonize once their factories had reached peak capacity and their home countries had been saturated with their product. Then, both the colonial culture, requiring the product, and the colonial presence, must be spread out upon the world, leading to world wars, and then finally to wars of natioal liberation.

Marx's writing focused on the criticism of capitalism to arrive at these conclusions and he wrote very little concerning the achievement of socialism and communism. He lent his name to Engles works, wrote the Communist Manifesto for the, I believe, Second International, meeting in the hope of staving off WWI, and admitted due to the prodding of the Lenin's of the time that perhaps a small elite well-organized party could take control of the state during a weak national period and drive the country through the socialist period and into the communist period by force. But basically, Marx merely critiqued capitalism and projected it's evolution into socialism and then communism over the next several centuries, which fact is quite obviously occurring, unfortunately.

To project Marx out to his furthest reaches is to find Man as nothing more than evolution into worker ants with various specialities with the children learning from the parents or the collective, almost hivelike.

In any event, this is just one example of critique without providing a substitute, since Marx's critique stated that capitalism would turn into socialism and then communism by itself, without outside help, he offered no substitute to his critique. He did though add knowledge to the theory studied, by shredding it to confetti, which the world cannot acknowledge, although it is all too obvious at this point. That secular humanism being taught to your kids in public school is a school of thought founded by that very Karl Marx you were brought up to despise. His early works founded humanism, and are among the most interesting for a new reader (of Marx). Few people realize that virtually every aspect of our lives is controlled by his thought, or, being a materialist, that virtually every aspect of our lives are controlled by conditions he foresaw and we think exactly as he predicted we would in relation to those conditions.

923 posted on 06/04/2002 1:12:08 AM PDT by stryker
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To: stryker
An uninspired placemarker...
924 posted on 06/04/2002 2:50:18 AM PDT by Junior
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To: PatrickHenry
Placemarker. I doubt this thread will get to 999.
925 posted on 06/04/2002 4:05:52 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: JediGirl
Please ping me when future scientific discussions of this sort come up. I am a student of science, you know. I feel it is my calling to investigate these sorts of phenomena. :-)
926 posted on 06/04/2002 10:04:55 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: ConsistentLibertarian
The theory is falsified by the observation that two legged creatures have a skeletal system that's not well designed for their needs.

With the phrase "God works in mysterious and unknowable ways" you have your answer.

Humans, as bipeds with insufficient skeletal systems that closely mimic qudrapedal skeletal systems (even have the "tail" bone on our rear-ends), are meant to suffer the resultant pain and agony of being supported by said skeleton.

Why? You cannot know and shouldn't be asking. Suffice it to say that God wanted all of us to be unhappy in this regard.

Same goes for any other number of seemingly incomplete designs. i.e. The Flightless Penguin with useless wings (on its way to becoming completely aquatic?)...The Ostrich/Emu with similarly useless wings...Whales with hind leg bones completely enclosed inside its body...Nipples On all male mammals (what is that about anyway?)...the list goes on and on. The only answer from the ID camp....God wanted it that way.

EBUCK

927 posted on 06/04/2002 1:16:53 PM PDT by EBUCK
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To: EBUCK
Nipples On all male mammals (what is that about anyway?)...

That reminds me of a really bad, bad joke but God wouldn't want me to tell it ... yet.

928 posted on 06/04/2002 1:30:03 PM PDT by balrog666
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To: PatrickHenry
Old 999 bump.


929 posted on 06/04/2002 1:57:28 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
Old 999 bump.


Not exactly 999, but worth a bump

930 posted on 06/04/2002 4:59:36 PM PDT by PatrickHenry
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To: OBAFGKM
If you are going to teach results of two hundred years painstaking research by hundreds of thousands of scientists highly trained in a multitude of disciplines,

argument from authority

then you have to teach what I heard last week in Sunday school.

strawman

surely one can do better.

931 posted on 06/04/2002 5:08:22 PM PDT by sayfer bullets
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To: sayfer bullets
"surely one can do better."

No problem:

"If you are going to teach the Darwinist view that organisms may look like they were designed but weren't,..."

argument from authority

"...then you have to allow for the possibility that they look like they were designed because they were designed,"

strawman

surely one understands "satire"


932 posted on 06/05/2002 6:08:11 AM PDT by OBAFGKM
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To: PatrickHenry
Hmmm ...
933 posted on 06/05/2002 7:54:21 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs
hrm....
934 posted on 06/05/2002 11:16:04 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: JediGirl
Joe Btfsplk?


935 posted on 06/05/2002 11:42:29 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Gumlegs;PatrickHenry
No, Gumlegs...PatrickHenry won't get to see post 999.
936 posted on 06/05/2002 11:43:33 AM PDT by JediGirl
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To: Gumlegs
Something to choo on?
937 posted on 06/05/2002 11:48:07 AM PDT by Doctor Stochastic
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To: JediGirl
PatrickHenry won't get to see post 999.

Why not? Is he sick? Are you planning to "take care of him"?

938 posted on 06/05/2002 11:56:13 AM PDT by general_re
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To: JediGirl
Do expand on this ...
939 posted on 06/05/2002 11:57:48 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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To: Doctor Stochastic
In case you're waiting for the other choo to drop.


940 posted on 06/05/2002 12:01:36 PM PDT by Gumlegs
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