Teaching Alternative To Evolution Backed

Washinton Post ^ | Wednesday, May 29, 2002 | Michael A. Fletcher

[Gladwin]

Two House Republicans are citing landmark education reform legislation in pressing for the adoption of a school science curriculum in their home state of Ohio that includes the teaching of an alternative to evolution.

In what both sides of the debate say is the first attempt of its kind, Reps. John A. Boehner and Steve Chabot have urged the Ohio Board of Education to consider the language in a conference report that accompanied the major education law enacted earlier this year.....

[VadeRetro]

That's the gist. He/she actually made several posts, which were marked by some of the best logic and writing I've seen on FR in a while.

Even the offending post was explaining that a society's god changes as the society changes and this is so because one of the things the religion does is give sanction to how the society operates. Yahweh sanctioned a herding and marauding life. People didn't like how the details of that were presented.

All the bull sees is the red flag.

[PatrickHenry]

Everything's cool in here, Mr. Moderator. No problems. Really.

[VadeRetro]

Never call me that. ;)

[f.Christian]

Yeah atta and atilla had a good side too...?

[ConsistentLibertarian]

"Jonathan Wells Ph.D. in Molecular and Cell Biology" Mr. Wells has a Ph.D in Religious Studies. I'm sure there are many Ph.D's in Religious Studies who are Creationists. There are many Ph.D.'s in Education and Social work who believe in stuff like "New Math"

[drq]

Whatever

[ConsistentLibertarian]

Maybe we can think outside the box and find a solution that best serves the interest of FR. Apparently EsotericLucidity has lots to contribute but has no self-control and goes nuclear from time to time. Why don't we invite him or her to email his or her thoughts to some responsible member of FR who can relay them verbatim to the forum, removing only the wildly offensive and gratuitous parts that are So Very Bad. Would that be acceptable to everyone?

[Ben Chad]

It makes it soooo hard to make conservative arguments about taxes, the 2nd amendment and military issues when other conservatives insist on bringing up stupid things like ID.

I agree completely!

Dittos

[ConsistentLibertarian]

My mistake. I thought your claim was that scientists are publishing refutations of evolutionary theory in academic journals with blind peer review.

[f.Christian]

Red flag yes...beach towel---no!

[VadeRetro]

By the standards applied to most Freepers, he/she would not have been nuked on Day 1. EL was a target because he killed Johnson in post 103 of that other thread. Kill EL, you kill 103, Johnson's back to life, plus you never have to deal with EL again.

I don't think we should force FR to be a better, more intelligent forum that it has the wit and the integrity to want to be on its own.

[VadeRetro]

. . . more intelligent forum that it has the wit . . .

. . . than it has the wit . . .

[ConsistentLibertarian]

"I don't think we should force FR to be a better, more intelligent forum than it has the wit and the integrity to want to be on its own." Interesting. Well, as a libertarian and a guest, I certainly don't want to force anything on my hosts. So ... how much wit and integrity does FR have? Would it be enough to allow EsotoricLucidity's contentful posts to be made public provided the Really Bad and Gratuitious Stuff was deleted?

[rdb3]

I'm just reading through the thread, following the discussion, and noticing a few (unprovoked) Christian-bashings.

Buckle up, Psalms! You ain't seen nothing yet!
(read: it gets worse.)

[AndrewC]

So on your view, we know that neither the collapsed bridge nor life on earth were the creations of a perfect being.

Interesting but wrong conclusion. The conclusion to be drawn is that a perfect designer would have knowledge and purpose beyond what we can see. That is illustrated by the SIRDS picture I have posted. Common folk see dots. "Truly intelligent designers" see the pattern, but miss the point(as you have). The "perfect designer"(for illustrative purposes) put the image in the picture. Some see it.

[f.Christian]

bttt

[VadeRetro]

It's not that we couldn't. OK, maybe that would be viewed the same as smuggling in any other banned freeper's posts. If a person's posts are worth having, the sensible thing would be to let that person post.

EL crossed somebody's line one time and was the victim of the usual C-side abuse-button junkies, the usual Moderator suspect. That should not have happened, but, failing that, it should be corrected. Failing that, the impression that the jihadists are taking over gains force.

[ConsistentLibertarian]

IF something was designed by a perfect designer, and it appears to have an imperfection, THEN the appearance is misleading. But that's not the question. The question is whether evidence of imperfect design is evidence for a perfect designer. It would be fun to see where that principle would take you if you accepted it. It would be fun to see where you'd end up if you rejected it. I can't decide which is more fun. You pick.

[ConsistentLibertarian]

"EL crossed somebody's line one time and was the victim of the usual C-side abuse-button junkies, the usual Moderator suspect." What's a C-side abuse button junkie and how does it differ an abuse button junkie that's not C-side? And who is the usual Moderator suspect? There's one that's suspect?

[AndrewC]

Banded iron formations (containing unoxidized iron) and pyrites don't form in the kind of oxidizing atmosphere you claim.

Please cite your source.

PRECAMBRIAN BANDED IRON-FORMATIONS (BIFS) WORLD-WIDE: THEIR GEOLOGIC SETTING, MINERALOGY, METAMORPHISM, AND ORIGIN

KLEIN, Cornelis, Univ New Mexico, 141 Northrop Hall, Albuquerque, NM 87131-1116, cklein@unm.edu.

BIFs are the diagenetic product of a chemical precipitate in a very iron-rich-system: SiO₂-FeO-Fe₂O₃-CaO-MgO-CO₂-H₂O (with minor Al₂O₃-Na₂O and variable MnO). They occur in the geologic record from 3.8 Ga (Isua, West Greenland) to about 1.8 Ga with a maximal abundance at about 2.5 Ga, and a reoccurrence in Neoproterozoic time (from about 0.8 and 0.6 Ga). Many of the 3.8 to 1.6 Ga BIFs have very similar average chemistries and the late diagenetic assemblages consist of chert, magnetite, hematite, greenalite, stilpnomelane, minnesotaite and carbonates (siderite, dolomite to ankerite, calcite). Regional metamorphism results in assemblages rich in various amphiboles, and at higher grades, various pyroxenes. Several major BIFs in Brazil with an age of about 2.4 Ga are much richer in Fe³⁺ (almost all hematite-rich) than normal, possibly as a result of deep weathering and secondary oxidation. The Neoproterozoic BIFs are chemically distinctly different from most others because about 95% of their total iron is Fe³⁺.

All BIFs between 3.8 and 1.8 Ga show REE patterns with pronounced positive Eu anomalies, negative Ce anomalies and depletion in the light REE. These patterns are the result of chemical precipitation from solutions that represent mixtures of seawater and hydrothermal input (of Fe and Si) from spreading centers in oceanic crust. The Neoproterozoic BIFs (e.g., Rapitan iron-formation, Yukon) display a lack of the Eu anomaly, and their overall REE pattern is very similar to that of modern ocean water at 100 m. This suggests that the hydrothermal input was highly diluted by ocean water at this late Precambrian time. The Neoproterozoic iron-formations commonly show a close association with glaciogenic deposits. The Rapitan BIF is interpreted as having been deposited during a major transgressive event with a rapid sea-level rise during an interglacial period, after earlier buildup of ferrous iron in solution in deeper water during a glacial period.

Please note this---These patterns are the result of chemical precipitation from solutions that represent mixtures of seawater and hydrothermal input (of Fe and Si) from spreading centers in oceanic crust.

This happens in solution not in the air.