[First_Salute]

Originally posted last August, re-posted here in the new FR arrangement; F.Y.I.

[Dimensio]

Student Scores Lower for States That Spent the Most

and

More Money Urged

Kind of says it all.

[KC_Conspirator]

Democrats and other supporters of higher spending said the comparison is useless because in most high scoring states, the SAT is only taken by the very best students. They said the states that spend the most tend to be the urban northeast states, which must work with diverse populations, students who speak English as a second language, and students from low income homes.

Excuses, nothing but effing excuses for their collossal failures. The liberal education establishment has a leather jack boot on the necks of of those in public "skools"; which are namely minority. There is tons of data which show that spending does not lead to better education, but rather simple values such as discipline, community, curriculum, and family involvement lead to better education.

[Mister Magoo]

This is no surprise. States like Utah, North Dakota, et cetera, have comparatively few minorities. That's why their scores are higher. It has nothing to do with money. As for why minorities score consistently lower on all educational tests across the board, that's a topic for another time. One thing is for certain -- while the SAT may in fact be a culturally biased test, no educational organization has devised a test in which minorities (except for Asians) score higher, or even equal to, Caucasians.

[xrp]

"These are the poorest, most disadvantaged kids'' who often drop out of high school, the Georgia Republican said.

No one is forced to drop out of high school. Kids either make a choice to drop out of high school or have made choices (such as getting pregnant, 100% preventable) that lead to them dropping out of school.

Their choices KEEP them poor and disadvantaged.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Our RINO governor here in Tennessee has proposed that if we just give him an additional $100 MILLION PER YEAR, that the schools would actually start teaching the children to read. He seems completelly oblivious to the fact that if the schools aren't providing something as basic as reading education, that giving them more money isn't going to help them.

[Straight Vermonter]

[EdReform]

"Many Democrats, backed by representatives of teachers and school administrators... "

That'd be unions, as in the National Education Association. Get the NEA out of public education, and you just might see some improvement in the schools.

Help defund the National Education Association

[OBAFGKM]

Great post, and one of the NEA's dirty little secrets. Although low-spending states have some of the highest scores and vice versa, the negative correlation between per pupil spending and SAT score is actually pretty weak -- if you plot it up, it looks like a shotgun pattern. Spending more or less doesn't seem to make much difference.

The NEA's complaint that one can't compare SAT scores is a red herring. The fact is that spending per pupil is demonstrably uncorrelated to virtually any measure of educational performance. I pulled the numbers below mostly ffrom the NEA's own website. The dollars per teacher data are for 1993. The rest are 1995. "% Fed $" is the federal contribution to the state's education budget. For fun, try copying the statistics into your favorite spreadsheet, making some charts, and showing the results to your favorite liberal!

(Be sure to plot $/Teacher versus $/Pupil. The only significant thing coming from higher per pupil spending seems be to raise teacher salaries.)

State	SAT	Pupils/teacher	$/Teacher	$/Pupil	% Fed $	Grad %
United States	910.00	17.40	35027.00	5421.00		71.2
Alabama	1029.00	17.40	26953.00	3616.00	52.88	66.10
Alaska	934.00	16.80	46019.00	8450.00	50.28	74.10
Arizona	944.00	18.70	31352.00	4381.00	45.47	72.70
Arkansas	1005.00	17.00	27433.00	4031.00	52.21	78.30
California	902.00	24.10	40035.00	4746.00	38.89	68.60
Colorado	980.00	18.30	33541.00	5172.00	39.03	75.10
Connecticut	908.00	14.30	48343.00	8017.00	32.26	80.40
Delaware	897.00	16.70	36217.00	6093.00	31.31	69.60
District of Columbia	857.00	13.30	38702.00	9549.00	81.88	62.80
Florida	889.00	18.40	31172.00	5243.00	50.53	65.00
Georgia	854.00	18.00	30051.00	4375.00	37.51	63.70
Hawaii	889.00	17.60	36470.00	5420.00	52.09	78.10
Idaho	979.00	19.60	27011.00	3556.00	48.75	81.10
Illinois	1048.00	16.80	38632.00	5670.00	30.85	78.60
Indiana	882.00	17.60	35066.00	5074.00	33.03	76.00
Iowa	1099.00	15.80	30130.00	5096.00	43.03	87.60
Kansas	1060.00	15.20	32863.00	5007.00	44.87	80.50
Kentucky	999.00	17.30	31115.00	4719.00	53.53	69.80
Louisiana	1021.00	16.60	27617.00	4354.00	54.49	52.90
Maine	896.00	14.10	30250.00	5652.00	53.57	81.10
Maryland	909.00	16.90	38753.00	6679.00	58.96	76.10
Massachusetts	907.00	15.00	38223.00	6408.00	38.01	79.10
Michigan	1033.00	19.50	43604.00	6268.00	30.74	70.90
Minnesota	1085.00	17.60	35093.00	5409.00	29.95	89.20
Mississippi	1036.00	18.20	24367.00	3245.00	63.90	62.10
Missouri	1045.00	16.20	29382.00	4830.00	49.96	73.20
Montana	1009.00	15.80	27617.00	5423.00	69.04	85.50
Nebraska	1050.00	14.60	28768.00	5263.00	43.29	87.20
Nevada	917.00	18.70	34119.00	4926.00	31.71	70.70
New Hampshire	935.00	15.60	33931.00	5790.00	34.59	78.10
New Jersey	898.00	13.60	42680.00	9317.00	31.05	84.10
New Mexico	1015.00	17.60	26532.00	3765.00	77.10	67.80
New York	892.00	15.20	44999.00	8527.00	34.69	66.60
North Carolina	865.00	16.70	29315.00	4555.00	36.61	68.50
North Dakota	1107.00	15.20	25211.00	4441.00	65.25	87.50
Ohio	975.00	16.90	34500.00	5694.00	36.75	72.40
Oklahoma	1027.00	15.50	25918.00	4078.00	55.39	76.30
Oregon	947.00	19.20	35880.00	5913.00	37.71	73.50
Pennsylvania	880.00	17.00	41215.00	6613.00	45.06	81.50
Rhode Island	888.00	14.30	37933.00	6546.00	50.46	76.80
South Carolina	844.00	17.00	29224.00	4436.00	47.25	58.10
South Dakota	1068.00	15.30	24289.00	4173.00	58.72	85.30
Tennessee	1040.00	19.40	28960.00	3692.00	42.82	68.70
Texas	893.00	15.70	29935.00	4632.00	39.22	56.00
Utah	1076.00	24.20	27239.00	3040.00	41.21	81.10
Vermont	901.00	14.00	34824.00	6944.00	42.57	82.40
Virginia	896.00	14.00	32306.00	4880.00	63.34	74.00
Washington	937.00	20.20	35759.00	5271.00	44.98	76.10
West Virginia	932.00	15.20	30301.00	5109.00	65.07	77.00
Wisconsin	1073.00	15.50	35926.00	6139.00	31.85	82.20
Wyoming	#N/A	17.20	30080.00	5812.00	52.83	83.80

[Captainpaintball]

bump

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Students that take the SAT test in the West and South tend to be gifted students applying to Ivy League and other elite schools.

I guess the western and southern students are all gifted...

[Attillathehon]

They said the states that spend the most tend to be the urban northeast states, which must work with diverse populations, students who speak English as a second language, and students from low income homes.

Sorry, but this argument won't wash. New York City was always a mecca for immigrants who were poor and couldn't speak English. The Irish, Italians, Germans, Poles and countless other people went to public schools, mastered the language and did extremely well on standardized exams. It's the schools themselves (and mediocre teachers) responsible for the low scores. Don't blame it on the poor.

[dr_who]

Betcha those New York janitors are happy.