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Could the South Have Won?
NY Books ^ | June 2002 ed. | James M. McPherson

Posted on 05/23/2002 8:52:25 AM PDT by stainlessbanner


The New York Review of Books
June 13, 2002

Review

Could the South Have Won?

By James M. McPherson

Look Away! A History of the Confederate States of America

by William C. Davis

The South vs. the South: How Anti-Confederate Southerners Shaped the Course of the Civil War

by William W. Freehling

Lee and His Army in Confederate History

by Gary W. Gallagher

The War Hits Home: The Civil War in Southeastern Virginia
by Brian Steel Wills

The field of Civil War history has produced more interpretative disputes than most historical events. Next to debates about the causes of the war, arguments about why the North won, or why the Confederacy lost (the difference in phraseology is significant), have generated some of the most heated but also most enlightening recent scholarship. The titles of four books reveal just some of the central themes of this argument: Why the North Won the Civil War (1960); How the North Won (1983); Why the South Lost the Civil War (1986); Why the Confederacy Lost (1992).

Answers to these why and how questions fall into two general categories: external and internal. Exter-nal interpretations usually phrase the question as Why did the North win? They focus on a comparison of Northern and Southern population, resources, economic capacity, leadership, or strategy, and conclude that Northern superiority in one or more of these explains Union victory. Internal explanations tend to ask, Why did the South lose? They focus mainly or entirely on the Confederacy and argue that internal divisions, dissensions, or inadequacies account for Confederate defeat.

The most durable interpretation is an external one. It was offered by General Robert E. Lee himself in a farewell address to his army after its surrender at Appomattox: "The Army of Northern Virginia has been compelled to yield to overwhelming numbers and resources."[1] This explanation enabled Southern whites to preserve their pride, to reconcile defeat with their sense of honor, even to maintain faith in the nobility of their cause while admitting that it had been lost. The Confederacy, in other words, was compelled to surrender not because its soldiers fought badly, or lacked courage, or suffered from poor leadership, or because its cause was wrong, but simply because the enemy had more men and guns. The South did not lose; Confederates wore themselves out whipping the Yankees and collapsed from glorious exhaustion. This interpretation became the mainstay of what has been called the Myth of the Lost Cause, which has sustained Southern pride in their Confederate forebears to this day. As one Virginian expressed it:

They never whipped us, Sir, unless they were four to one. If we had had anything like a fair chance, or less disparity of numbers, we should have won our cause and established our independence.[2]

In one form or another, this explanation has won support from scholars of Northern as well as Southern birth. In 1960 the historian Richard Current provided a succinct version of it. After reviewing the statistics of the North's "overwhelming numbers and resources" two and a half times the South's population, three times its railroad capacity, nine times its industrial production, and so on Current concluded that "surely, in view of the disparity of resources, it would have taken a miracle...to enable the South to win. As usual, God was on the side of the heaviest battalions."[3]

In 1990 Shelby Foote expressed this thesis in his inimitable fashion. Noting that many aspects of life in the North went on much as usual during the Civil War, Foote told Ken Burns on camera in the PBS documentary The Civil War that "the North fought that war with one hand behind its back." If necessary "the North simply would have brought that other arm out from behind its back. I don't think the South ever had a chance to win that war."[4]


At first glance, Current's and Foote's statements seem plausible. But upon reflection, a good many historians have questioned their explicit assertions that overwhelming numbers and resources made Northern victory inevitable. If that is true, the Confederate leaders who took their people to war in 1861 were guilty of criminal folly or colossal arrogance. They had read the census returns. They knew as much about the North's superiority in men, resources, and economic capacity as any modern historian. Yet they went to war confident of victory. Southern leaders were students of history. They could cite many examples of small nations that won or defended their independence against much more powerful enemies: Switzerland against the Hapsburg Empire; the Netherlands against Spain; Greece against the Ottomans. Their own ancestors had won independence from mighty Britain in 1783. The relative resources of the Confederacy vis-à-vis the Union in 1861 were greater than those of these other successful rebels.

The Confederacy waged a strategically defensive war to protect from conquest territory it already controlled and to preserve its armies from annihilation. To "win" that kind of war, the Confederacy did not need to invade and conquer the North or destroy its army and infrastructure; it needed only to hold out long enough to compel the North to the conclusion that the price of conquering the South and annihilating its armies was too great, as Britain had concluded with respect to the United States in 1781 or, for that matter, as the United States concluded with respect to Vietnam in 1972. Until 1865, cold-eyed military experts in Europe were almost unanimous in their conviction that Union armies could never conquer and subdue the 750,000 square miles of the Confederacy, as large as all of Western Europe. "No war of independence ever terminated unsuccessfully except where the disparity of force was far greater than it is in this case," pronounced the military analyst of the London Times in 1862. "Just as England during the revolution had to give up conquering the colonies so the North will have to give up conquering the South."[5]

Even after losing the war, many ex-Confederates stuck to this belief. General Joseph E. Johnston, one of the highest-ranking Confederate officers, insisted in 1874 that the Southern people had not been "guilty of the high crime of undertaking a war without the means of waging it successfully."[6] A decade later General Pierre G.T. Beauregard, who ranked just below Johnston, made the same point: "No people ever warred for independence with more relative advantages than the Confederates."[7]


If so, why did they lose the war? In thinly veiled terms, Johnston and Beauregard blamed the inept leadership of Jefferson Davis. That harried gentleman responded in kind; as far as he was concerned, the erratic and inadequate generalship of Beauregard and especially Johnston was responsible for Confederate defeat. In the eyes of many contemporaries and historians there was plenty of blame to go around. William C. Davis's Look Away! is the most recent "internal" study of the Confederacy that, by implication at least, attributes Confederate defeat to poor leadership at several levels, both military and civilian, as well as factionalism, dissension, and bickering between men with outsize egos and thin skins. In this version of Confederate history, only Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson remain unstained.

For any believer in the Myth of the Lost Cause, any admirer of heroic Confederate resistance to overwhelming odds, the story told by Davis (no relation to the Confederate president) makes depressing reading. It is a story of conflicts not on the battlefields of Manassas or Shiloh or Gettysburg or Chickamauga or the Wilderness they are here, but offstage, as it were but conflicts between state governors and the Confederate government in Richmond, between quarreling Cabinet officers, between Jefferson Davis and prominent generals or senators or newspaper editors and even his vice-president, Alexander Stephens. Davis chronicles different examples of internal breakdown under the stresses not only of enemy invasion but also of slave defections to the Yankees, of Unionist disloyalty in the upcountry, particularly in such states as Tennessee, of galloping inflation and the inability of an unbalanced agricultural society under siege to control it, of shortages and hunger and a growing bitterness and alienation among large elements of the population.

These problems seemed more than sufficient to ensure Confederate failure, but they were greatly exacerbated by the jealousies and rivalries of Confederate politicians, which remain Davis's principal focus. He does not explicitly address the question of why the Confederacy lost, but his implicit answer lies in the assertion that "the fundamental flaw in too many of the big men of the Confederacy... [was] 'big-man-me-ism.'"

There are, however, two problems with this interpretation. In two senses it is too "internal." First, by concentrating only on the Confederacy it tends to leave the reader with the impression that only the Confederacy suffered from these corrosive rivalries, jealousies, and dissensions. But a history of the North during the Civil War would reveal similar problems, mitigated only by Lincoln's skill in holding together a diverse coalition of Republicans and War Democrats, Yankees and border states, abolitionists and slaveholders which perhaps suggests that Lincoln was the principal reason for Union victory. In any event, Look Away! is also too "internal" because the author is too deeply dependent on his sources. It is the nature of newspaper editorials, private correspondence, congressional debates, partisan speeches, and the like to emphasize conflict, criticism, argument, complaint. It is the squeaky wheel that squeaks. The historian needs to step back and gain some perspective on these sources, to recognize that the well-greased wheel that turns smoothly also turns quietly, leaving less evidence of its existence available to the historian.

Look Away! falls within one tradition of internal explanations for Confederate defeat. More prevalent, especially in recent years, have been studies that emphasize divisions and conflicts of race, class, and even gender in the South. Two fifths of the Confederate population were slaves, and two thirds of the whites did not belong to slaveholding families. What stake did they have in an independent Confederate nation whose original raison d'être was the protection of slavery? Not much stake at all, according to many historians, especially for the slaves and, as the war took an increasing toll on non-slaveholding white families, very little stake for them either. Even among slaveholding families, the women who willingly subscribed to an ethic of sacrifice in the war's early years became disillusioned as the lengthening war robbed them of husbands, sons, lovers, and brothers. Many white women turned against the war and spread this disaffection among their menfolk in the army; in the end, according to Drew Gilpin Faust, "it may well have been because of its women that the South lost the Civil War."[8]


If all this is true if the slaves and some nonslaveholding whites opposed the Confederate war effort from the outset and others including women of slaveholding families eventually turned against it, one need look no further to explain Confederate defeat. In The South vs. the South, however, William W. Freehling does not go this far. He says almost nothing about women as a separate category, and he acknowledges that many nonslaveholding whites had a racial, cultural, and even economic stake in the preservation of slavery and remained loyal Confederates to the end. But he maintains that, properly defined, half of all Southerners opposed the Confederacy and that this fact provides a sufficient explanation for Confederate failure.

Freehling defines the South as all fifteen slave states and Southerners as all people slave as well as free who lived in those states. This distinction between "the South" and the eleven slave states that formed the Confederacy is important but too often disregarded by those who casually conflate the South and the Confederacy. Admittedly, some 90,000 white men from the four Union slave states (Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, and Delaware) fought for the Confederacy, but this number was offset by a similar number of whites from Confederate states (chiefly Tennessee and the part of Virginia that became West Virginia) who fought for the Union.

But Freehling's central thesis that "white Confederates were only half the Southerners" raises problems. This arithmetic works only if virtually all black Southerners are counted against the Confederacy. At times Freehling seems to argue that they should be so counted. At other times he is more cautious, maintaining that "the vast majority" of Southern blacks "either opposed the rebel cause or cared not whether it lived or died." Freehling does not make clear how important he considers that qualifying "or cared not." In any event, let us assume that all three million slaves who remained in the Confederacy (as well as the one million in the border states and in conquered Confederate regions) sympathized with the Union cause that would bring them freedom. Nevertheless, their unwilling labor as slaves was crucial to the Confederate economy and war effort, just as their unwilling labor and that of their forebears had been crucial to building the antebellum Southern economy. These Confederate slaves worked less efficiently than before the war because so many masters and overseers were absent at the front. Unwilling or not, however, they must be counted on the Confederate side of the equation, which significantly alters Freehling's 50/50 split of pro- and anti-Confederates in the South to something like 75/25.

Freehling draws on previous scholarship to offer a succinct narrative of the political and military course of the war, organized around Lincoln's slow but inexorable steps toward emancipation, "hard war," and the eventual mobilization of 300,000 black laborers and soldiers to work and fight for the Union. This narrative is marred by several errors, including the repeated confusion of General Charles F. Smith with General William F. "Baldy" Smith, the conflation of combat casualties with combat mortality, the mislabeling of a photograph of Confederate trenches at Fredericksburg as Petersburg, and the acceptance at face value of Alexander Stephens's absurd claim, made five years after Lincoln's death, that the Union president had urged him in 1865 to persuade Southern states to ratify the Thirteenth Amendment "prospectively," thereby delaying the abolition of slavery five years. Nevertheless, Freehling has made a strong case for the vital contribution of the two million whites and one million blacks in the South who definitely did support the Union cause. Without them, "the North" could not have prevailed, as Lincoln readily acknowledged.


Freehling does not take a clear stand on the question of whether Union victory was inevitable. At times he seems to imply that it was, because the half of all Southerners whom he claims supported the Union (actively or passively) doomed the Confederacy. But at other times he suggests that this support was contingent on the outcome of military campaigns and political decisions. No such ambiguity characterizes the essays in Gary Gallagher's Lee and His Army in Confederate History. In this book and in his earlier The Confederate War, Gallagher has argued forcefully and convincingly that Confederate nationalism bound most Southern whites together in determined support for the Confederate cause, that the brilliant though costly victories of Robert E. Lee's Army of Northern Virginia reinforced this determination, and that morale even in the face of defeat and the destruction of resources in 1864 1865 remained high until almost the end.

Gallagher does not slight the problems of slave defections to the Yankees, class tensions among whites, personal rivalries and jealousies among Confederate leaders, and other internal divisions that have occupied historians who see these problems as preordaining defeat. But he emphasizes the degree of white unity and strength of purpose despite these faultlines. Plenty of evidence exists to support this emphasis. A Union officer who was captured at the Battle of Atlanta on July 22, 1864, and spent the rest of the war in Southern prisons wrote in his diary on October 4 that from what he had seen in the South "the End of the War...is some time hence as the Idea of the Rebs giving up until they are completely subdued is all Moonshine they submit to privatations that would not be believed unless seen."[9]

"Until they are completely subdued." That point came in April 1865, when the large and well-equipped Union armies finally brought the starving, barefoot, and decimated ranks of Confederates to bay. Gallagher revives the overwhelming numbers and resources explanation for Confederate defeat, shorn of its false aura of inevitability. Numbers and resources do not prevail in war without the will and skill to use them. The Northern will wavered several times, most notably in response to Lee's victories in the summer of 1862 and winter spring of 1863 and the success of Lee's resistance to Grant's offensives in the spring and summer of 1864. Yet Union leaders and armies were learning the skills needed to win, and each time the Confederacy seemed on the edge of triumph, Northern victories blunted the Southern momentum: at Sharpsburg, Maryland, and Perryville, Kentucky, in the fall of 1862; at Gettysburg and Vicksburg in July 1863; and at Atlanta and in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley in September 1864. Better than any other historian of the Confederacy, Gallagher understands the importance of these contingent turning points that eventually made it possible for superior numbers and resources to prevail. He understands as well that the Confederate story cannot be written except in counterpoint with the Union story, and that because of the multiple contingencies in these stories, Northern victory was anything but inevitable.


Much of the best scholarship on the Civil War during the past decade has concentrated on the local or regional impact of the war. A fine example is Brian Steel Wills's The War Hits Home, a fascinating account of the home front and battle front in southeastern Virginia, especially the town of Suffolk and its hinterland just inland from Norfolk. No great battles took place here, but there was plenty of skirmishing and raids by combatants on both sides. Confederates controlled this region until May 1862, when they were compelled to pull back their defenses to Richmond. Union forces occupied Suffolk for the next year, staving off a halfhearted Confederate effort to recapture it in the spring of 1863. The Yankees subsequently fell back to a more defensible line nearer Norfolk, leaving the Suffolk region a sort of no man's land subject to raids and plundering by the cavalry of both armies.

Through it all most white inhabitants remained committed Confederates, while many of the slaves who were not removed by their owners to safer territory absconded to the Yankees, adding their weight to the Union side of the scales in the balance of power discussed by Freehling. White men from this region fought in several of Lee's regiments, suffering casualties that left many a household bereft of sons, husbands, fathers. Yet their Confederate loyalties scarcely wavered.

Northern occupation forces at first tried a policy of conciliation, hoping to win the Southern whites back to the Union. When this failed, they moved toward a harsher policy here as they did elsewhere, confiscating the property and liberating the slaves of people they now perceived as enemies to be crushed rather than deluded victims of secession conspirators to be converted.

Wills does not make a big point of it, but his findings stand "in sharp rebuttal" to the arguments of historians who portray a weak or divided white commitment to the Confederate cause as the reason for defeat. "These people sought to secure victory until there was no victory left to win." In the end the North did have greater numbers and resources, wielded with a skill and determination that by 1864 1865 matched the Confederacy's skills and determination; and these explain why the North won the Civil War.

Notes

[1] The Wartime Papers of R.E. Lee, edited by Clifford Dowdey and Louis H. Manarin (Little, Brown, 1961), p. 934.

[2] Quoted in Why the North Won the Civil War, edited by David Donald (Louisiana State University Press, 1960), p. ix.

[3] Richard N. Current, "God and the Strongest Battalions," in Why the North Won the Civil War, p. 22.

[4] "Men at War: An Interview with Shelby Foote," in Geoffrey C. Ward with Ric Burns and Ken Burns, The Civil War (Knopf, 1990), p. 272.

[5] London Times, August 29, 1862.

[6] Joseph E. Johnston, Narrative of Military Operations (Appleton, 1874), p. 421.

[7] Pierre G.T. Beauregard, "The First Battle of Bull Run," in Battles and Leaders of the Civil War, 4 volumes, edited by Robert U. Johnson and Clarence C. Buel (Century, 1887), Vol. 1, p. 222.

[8] Drew Gilpin Faust, "Altars of Sacrifice: Confederate Women and the Narratives of War," The Journal of American History, Vol. 76, No. 4 (March 1990), p. 1228.

[9] "The Civil War Diary of Colonel John Henry Smith," edited by David M. Smith, Iowa Journal of History, Vol. 47 (April 1949), p. 164.



TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: books; dixie; dixielist; jamesmcpherson; mcpherson; research; south
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Comment #161 Removed by Moderator

To: CajunPrince
This was the 'RW3'...

England wasn't interested!

That Braveheart--mel gibson movie reminded me of "attica".

This war--debate goes on and on...needlessly!

I believe 100% in state rights and the National Government---constitution!

Cultural wars and prison riots are another thing!

162 posted on 05/23/2002 3:03:56 PM PDT by f.Christian
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Comment #163 Removed by Moderator

To: CajunPrince
LOL..bec mon chu....I don't speak old Louisiana French either but I know enough to see kiss my....something in there.

I think it's safe to say there were marauders on both sides. The fact that the North was the invader/occupier opens them up to this charge more often strictly by that fact as much as anything. Aside from the border states where this stuff was commonplace, I believe there is evidence that most field commanders dealt harshly with such offenses. Sherman's march and his total war in my homestate of Mississippi probably pushed the envelope more than most. His desire was to break the will of the Southerners....whether he did or not is something we can all debate forever.

164 posted on 05/23/2002 3:04:21 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: r9etb
"My brother-in-law was slated to be in the first wave in the invasion of Japan."

No invasion was necessary. The Japanese were ready to surrender, all that was required was that they be offered halfway decent terms. And they were after Hiroshima and Nagasaki was used to demonstrate the atomic bomb to the Russians.

165 posted on 05/23/2002 3:06:53 PM PDT by Aurelius
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To: billbears
Continues to collect tariffs that they feel is due them which is what started the war in the first place

You still believe that nonsense?  I suggest that you go read the secessionist statements of virtually all the slaveholding states.  There is not a word about tariffs.  OTOH slavery is another matter...
166 posted on 05/23/2002 3:09:29 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: CajunPrince
Look here.
167 posted on 05/23/2002 3:13:05 PM PDT by weikel
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To: Aurelius
No invasion was necessary. The Japanese were ready to surrender, all that was required was that they be offered halfway decent terms. And they were after Hiroshima and Nagasaki was used to demonstrate the atomic bomb to the Russians.

Necessary or not, the invasion was scheduled and would have occurred.

As for "terms," the "unconditional surrender" formula had its roots in the idea that our WWII enemies had to be unambiguously defeated on the battlefield. (WWI being taken as an example of what happens if you don't do that.)

It's the same revisionist pap that's been going around for decades. You can hindsight it all you want, but Truman's decision was based on the casualties at Okinawa, and the certainty that they'd be far worse in the Japan campaign.

168 posted on 05/23/2002 3:13:12 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: 4ConservativeJustices
The Confederacy lost because Lincoln and Union troops waged an uncivil war against civilians and civilian property. Unable to win honorably on the field of battle, Union troops resorted attacking civilians and their property. Only after 4 years against overwhelming odds, we were starved into submission.

Strange, I thought that the Yankees whupped tail in the west and finally beat Lee in the east - in standup fights no less.  I suggest that you look closely at some of the things that the southern generals did to Union civilians before you throw around such base charges so freely.
169 posted on 05/23/2002 3:16:09 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: wardaddy
His desire was to break the will of the Southerners....whether he did or not is something we can all debate forever.

No, I think that's been settled pretty well. If the Southern will hadn't been broken, we'd have seen evidence to that effect. To my knowledge there were no Reconstruction-era insurrections (at least, none of any significance) by Southerners, and the secessionist states did eventually come rather meekly back into the Union.

170 posted on 05/23/2002 3:17:47 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
"WWI being taken as an example of what happens if you don't do that."

On the contrary, the lesson that should have been learned from WWI was the effect of punitive terms like those proposed by Roosevelt, who didn't learn from history, which probably had the effect of prolonging the war on both fronts.

171 posted on 05/23/2002 3:20:10 PM PDT by Aurelius
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To: r9etb
Perhaps....but meekly is a bad choice of words....it's a mistake to believe southern politeness is a sign of meekness.
172 posted on 05/23/2002 3:32:58 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Frumious Bandersnatch
I suggest that you go read the secessionist statements of virtually all the slaveholding states.

LOL!! Virtually all you say? Last time I checked there were 11 states, but hmmm..only 4 formal declarations of secession. That's not even a majority son. As for reason perhaps we should look to the address of the people of South Carolina in Dec 1860.

And so with the Southern States, towards the Northern States, in the vital matter of taxation. They are in a minority in Congress. Their representation in Congress is useless to protect them against unjust taxation; and they are taxed by the people of the North for their benefit, exactly as the people of Great Britain taxed our ancestors in the British Parliament for their benefit. For the last forty years, the taxes laid by the Congress of the United States, have been laid with a view of subserving the interests of the North. The people of the South have been taxed by duties on imports, not for revenue, but for an object inconsistent with revenue - to promote, by prohibitions, Northern interests in the productions of their mines and manufactures.

There is another evil, in the condition of the Southern towards the Northern States, which our ancestors refused to bear towards Great Britain. Our ancestors not only taxed themselves, but all the taxes collected from them, were expended amongst them. Had they submitted to the pretensions of the British Government, the taxes collected from them would have been expended in other parts of the British Empire. They were fully aware of the effect of such a policy in impoverishing the people from whom taxes are collected, and in enriching those who receive the benefit of their expenditure. To prevent the evils of such a policy was one of the motives which drove them on to revolution. Yet this British policy has been fully realized towards the Southern States by the Northern States. The people of the Southern States are not only taxed for the benefit of the Northern States, but after the taxes are collected, three- fourths of them are expended at the North. This cause, with others, connected with the operation of the General Government, has made the cities of the South provincial. Their growth is paralyzed; they are mere suburbs of Northern cities. The agricultural productions of the South are the basis of the foreign commerce of the United States; yet Southern cities do not carry it on. Our foreign trade is almost annihilated. In 1740, there were five ship-yards in South Carolina, to build ships to carry on our direct trade with Europe. Between 1740 and 1779, there were built in these yards, twenty-five square rigged vessels, besides a great number of sloops and schooners, to carry on our coast and West India trade. In the half century immediately preceding the Revolution, from 1725 to 1775, the population of South Carolina increased seven-fold.

Declaration Debate of South Carolina

What is mentioned first and foremost in this address? Interestingly enough, taxes, the most heinous matter forced upon the South by the north

173 posted on 05/23/2002 3:33:26 PM PDT by billbears
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To: r9etb
I agree wholeheartedly with you on this point about Truman and his decision. I also think there may be some truth that some of the more Machiavellian minded folks in Truman's war cabinet may have wished to send Stalin a message as well but that was more of a bonus than a primary reasoning.
174 posted on 05/23/2002 3:36:12 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: billbears
Considering the tyrant's first address to the nation, it was quite clear the US Navy would not be relieving Fort Sumter as much as resupplying Fort Sumter. abe wanted his tariff money

Let's not forget the deception "honest" abe engaged in while preparing the Sumter expedition that arrived on the 13th of April.

"I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you to expect an attempt will be made to supply Fort-Sumpter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or amunition, will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the Fort" - Lincoln, message to Gov. Francis Pickens of South Carolina, CSA, April 6, 1861 by delivery of Robert S. Chew

Compare that "provisions only" message to what Lincoln himself had been planning for months in his correspondence to the other yankees...

"Last night I received your letter giving an account of your interview with Gen. Scott, and for which I thank you. Please present my respects to the General, and tell him, confidentially, I shall be obliged to him to be as well prepared as he can to either hold, or retake, the forts [Sumter and Moultrie], as the case may require, at, and after the inaugeration." - Lincoln, confidential letter to E. B. Washburne, Dec. 21, 1860

"Can you, with all the means now in your control, supply or re-inforce Fort Sumpter within that time?...If not, what amount of means and of what description, in addition to that already at your control, would enable you to supply and reinforce that fortress within the time?" - Lincoln to Gen. Winfield Scott, March 9, 1861

"The secretary of the Navy will please cause three complete sets of signal books telegraphic & common to be delivered to the bearer." - Lincoln, confidential memo to Gideon Welles, Secretary of the Navy, directing the delivery of signal books presumably to Anderson at Sumter for coordination with a naval fleet.

"On the information of Capt. Fox, he had supposed you could hold out till the 15th. inst. without any great inconvenience; and had prepared an expedition to relieve you before that period. Hoping still that you will be able to sustain yourself till the 11th. or 12th. inst. the expedition will go forward; and, finding your flag flying, will attempt to provision you, and, in case the effort is resisted, will endeavor also to reinforce you." - Lincoln by letter of Simon Cameron to Maj. Robert Anderson, commander of the Fort Sumter Garrison, April 4, 1861. This letter did not reach delivery.

"Should the authorities at Charleston, however, refuse to permit or attempt to prevent the vessel or vessels having supplies on board from entering the harbor, or from peaceably proceeding to Fort Sumter, you will protect the transports or boats of the expedition in the object of their mission-disposing of your force in such manner as to open the way for their ingress and afford, so far as practicable, security to the men and boats, and repelling by force, if necessary, all obstructions towards provisioning the fort and re-enforcing it; for in case of resistance to the peaceable primary object of the expedition a re-enforcement of the garrison will also be attempted. These purposes will be under the supervision of the War Department, which has charge of the expedition. The expedition has been intrusted to Captain G. V. Fox, with whom you will put yourself in communication, and co-operate with him to accomplish and carry into effect its object." - Gideon Welles, Secretary of the Navy, to Samuel Mercer, Captain USS Powhatan, April 5, 1861

175 posted on 05/23/2002 3:42:12 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: r9etb, Aurelius
Please read "Marching Orders: The Untold Story of World War II" by Bruce Lee. The Magic Summaries were clearly showing to Truman, Marshall et al that the Japanese had no intentions of losing face and surrendering. Up till the last moment they were still trying to work deals with the Russians and whoever to keep their military dictatorship.

The bomb was the best and final answer. Most believe that there would have been between 100,000 -1,000,000 US casualties if we had invaded and many, many more Japanese. Sorry, Truman did the right thing.

176 posted on 05/23/2002 3:44:35 PM PDT by schu
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To: CajunPrince;WhiskeyPapa
The people killed in Lawrence, Kansas were in killed in retaliation for Jayhawker raids into neighboring Missouri, where they did the exact same thing. Again, nothing wrong with retaliating against someone who harms you.

And for the record, the Lawrence raid was most immediately provoked by an atrocity committed by the yankee military on Jayhawker influence via Senator Lane.

A week before, union command had rounded up the wives and children of known confederates in western missouri for imprisonment. One of the makeshift prisons was a shaky old building in disrepair that was filled with prisoners despite its known structural flaws. The building collapsed killing several of the imprisoned civilians and injuring several more. "Bloody" Bill Anderson, one of the main organizers of the Lawrence raid, was provoked into action by the prison collapse. One of his sisters was killed and another severely crippled by it.

177 posted on 05/23/2002 3:50:04 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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To: GOPcapitalist
By your logic the burning of Atlanta could be considered retaliation for the burning of Chambersburg. The people in Lawrence were innocent civilian men and boys and the southern raiders shot them for it. But, hey, they were only Yankees, right? Only Yankees commit atrocities, right?
178 posted on 05/23/2002 4:13:33 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: CajunPrince
I'm only drawing the same conclusion that former Confederate leaders drew. The best and brightest went down, leaving the storekeepers to rule the new South.
179 posted on 05/23/2002 4:33:43 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Non-Sequitur
which also shows you constant claim that rape and murder were encouraged by Sherman and other commanders to be the ludicrous falsehood it is.

Really? Cause Sherman directly sanctioned murder in multiple cases, not to mention many other things such as arson, theft, and looting. In one case he even went so far as to assert he would protect his sanctioned looters life for life if anybody tried to stop them. Granted, I don't think Sherman ever sanctioned rape, though Butler did in New Orleans. Here's just a small sample of the many, many yankee sanctions and concessions of atrocities by northern commanders:

"I will not only retaliate as I have already mentioned, but there shall not be a house left standing within reach of my scouting parties along my line of march, nor will I be responsible for the conduct of my soldiers, who will not only be allowed but encouraged to take a fearful revenge." - Gen. J. Kilpatrick, US, notifying confederate command of his explicitly ordered retaliation against southern civilians who had shot at the yankee looters and arsonists, February 22, 1865

"You speak in your communication of my threat to burn houses, &c., as being "too brutal for you or your Government to entertain." No matter how brutal it may seem, I have the power and will enforce it to the letter , and more, lf this course is persisted in, I will not only allow but encourage my people to retaliate man forman. I shall take no action for the present." - Gen J. Kilpatrick, US, responding to the confederate answer to the previous quote in which it was pointed out that his men were engaging in warfare against civilians, February 23, 1865

"I hold about 1,000 prisoners captured in various ways, and can stand it as long as you; but I hardly think these murders are committed with your knowledge, and would suggest that you give notice to the people at large that every life taken by them simply results in the death of one of your Confederates. Of course you cannot question my right to "forage on the country." It is a war right as old as history. The manner of exercising it varies with circumstances, and if the civil authorities will supply my requisitions I will forbid all foraging. But I find no civil authorities who can respond to calls for forage or provisions, therefore must collect directly of the people. I have no doubt this is the occasion of much misbehavior on the part of our men, but I cannot permit an enemy to judge or punish with wholesale murder. Personally I regret the bitter feelings engendered by this war, but they were to be expected, and I simply allege that those who struck the first blow and made war inevitable ought not, in fairness, to reproach us for the natural consequences. I merely assert our war right to forage and my resolve to protect my foragers to the extent of life for life. " - Gen. W.T. Sherman, US, to Gen. W. Hampton, CS, informing him of his ordered continuation and sanction for northern looting of southern civilian property, February 24, 1865

"I expect Kilpatrick here this p.m. and will send him well to the left. He reports that two men of his foraging parties were murdered after capture by the enemy and labeled "Death to all foragers." Now, it is clearly our war right to subsist our army on the enemy. Napoleon always did it, but could avail himself of the civil powers he found in existence to collect forage and provisions by regular impressments. We cannot do that here, and I contend if the enemy fails to defend his country we may rightfully appropriate what we want. If our foragers act under mine, yours, or other proper authority, they must be protected. I have ordered Kilpatrick to select of his prisoners man for man, shoot them, and leave them by the roadside labeled, so that our enemy will see that for every man he executes he takes the life of one of his own." - William T. Sherman to Major-General Howard, Commanding Right Wing, February 23, 1865

"Send over about Fairmount and Adairsville, burn ten or twelve houses of known secessionists, kill a few at random, and let it be known that it will be repeated every time a train is fired upon rom Resaca to Kingston" - Gen. William T. Sherman, orders to Gen. Louis Watkins, 1864

"Our armies traverse the land and waves of disaffection, sedition and crime close in behind and our track disappears. But one thing is certain, there is a class of people, men, women, and children who must be killed or banished before we can hope for peace and order even as far South as Tennessee." - Gen. William T. Sherman, letter to Stanton, June 21, 1864

"Every time the telegraph wire is cut we would burn a house; every time a train was fired upon we would hang a man; and we would continue to do this until every house was burned and every man hanged between Decatur and Bridgeport." - Col. John Beatty, US, recollection of events in Paint Rock, Alabama

"As the officers and soldiers of the United States have been subject to repeated insult from the women (calling themselves ladies) of New Orleans, in return for the most scrupulous non-interference and courtesy on our part, it is ordered that hereafter when any female shall, by word, gesture, or movement, insult or show contempt for any officer or soldier of the United States, she shall be regarded and held liable to be treated as a woman of the town plying her avocation." - Gen. Benjamin Butler, orders to federal troops to use female civilians meeting the said qualifications as prostitutes, May 15, 1862

"For five days, ten thousand of our men worked hard and with a will, in that work of destruction, with axes, sledges, crowbars, clawbars, and with fire, and I have no hesitation in pronouncing the work well done. Meridian with its Depots, Storehouses, Arsenals, offices, Hospitals, Hotels, and Cantonments, no longer exists." - Gen. William T. Sherman to Gen. Grant, 1864

"My movement to Meridian stampeded all Alabama. Polk retreated across the Tombigbee and left me to break railroads and smash things at pleasure ...We lived off the country and made a swath of desolation 50 miles broad across the State of Mississippi" - Gen. William T. Sherman to Gen. Henry Halleck, 1864

180 posted on 05/23/2002 4:35:35 PM PDT by GOPcapitalist
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