U.S. Won't Allow Guns in Cockpits

AP ^ | 2-21-2002 | JONATHAN D. SALANT

[Cagey]

WASHINGTON (AP) - The federal government said Tuesday that pilots will not be allowed to have guns in the cockpits of commercial airplanes.

The announcement was made at a Senate Commerce Committee hearing by John Magaw, undersecretary for transportation security. It followed months of debate over whether arming pilots would be a deterrent to hijackers.

Both Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta and Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge previously indicated their opposition to arming pilots.

Magaw gave no reason for his decision, which was announced in response to a question from Arizona Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the committee.

Magaw said a formal announcement will be made later in the week.

Airline pilots have been pushing for guns, saying it would allow them to confront a hijacker who breaks into the cockpit. Hijackers took over four commercial airlines on Sept. 11, crashing two of them into the World Trade Center and a third into the Pentagon. The fourth crashed in a field in Pennsylvania.

Flight attendants, meanwhile, have advocated nonlethal weapons, such as stun guns, that they could use in emergencies.

Sen. Ernest Hollings, D-S.C., who chairs the Commerce Committee, said guns would not be needed as long as pilots kept cockpit doors locked while in flight.

"You can put the rule in right now and cut out all the argument about pistols and stun guns," Hollings said.

Opponents of arming pilots have said reinforced cockpit doors now required on all planes mean that pistols are unnecessary. They have also expressed concern that an errant shot might hit a passenger or damage a key electrical system on the plane.

Two House Republicans have introduced legislation to arm pilots and the House Transportation Committee is scheduled to take up the bill this week.

[mo]

this is a deprivation of american citizens God given right to self defense.

[rundy]

Post #300. Fantastic Post Uncle Bill

A post of Fools on Parade.
rundy is saving this one.

Thanks Uncle Bill.

[supercat]

I am disappointed, but as long as they allow stun guns, I can accept it. If they don't, I will be angry and want Mineta out.

I could give any pilot all the "training" needed to effectively handle a stun gun in eight words: "DROP THE STUN GUN. GRAB THE FIRE AXE."

[supercat]

Anyone ever hijacked an escalator? Most escalators have stop controls which can be easily reached. They are generally behind easily-breakable glass, and there is usually posted a severe penalty for non-emergency use, but the controls are nonetheless available.

Of course, what exactly someone would do with an escalator if one hijacked it is a bit unclear. Their range of mobility is, to put it mildly, rather limitted.

[supercat]

OK. On 9/11, the pilots were coerced to open the cabin doors by threats to (and possibly killing) the rest of the crew. Couldn't a pilot just as easily have been coerced into giving up his gun?

Prior to 9/11, pilots were trained to cooperate with hijackers. I don't think such training is given anymore; even if it is I would expect pilots to disregard it.

[supercat]

2 options as I see it - (1) unlock the door and we are back to square 1. (2) Open cockpit door and fire shots to the heads of the terrorists - case closed.

Option (3) land the plane as quickly as possible, leaving the door locked, but with a pistol ready in case the door fails.

[supercat]

Secondly, and most important, if a hijacking takes place and the pilots are locked in, who is to say the hijackers will not hesitate to kill the stewardess' and any of the passengers to gain entry into the cockpit? As captain of the aircraft, and responsible for their safety, how many pilots are willing to sacrifice crew and passengers?

A pilot's job is to maintain control of hundreds of tons of flying metal. If someone tries to break into the cockpit, a handheld device to launch a few quarter-ounces of flying metal may help him perform that job. The hardest part of a pilot's job would probably be controlling the desire to intervene in the cabin, but a pilot's duty demands nothing less.

[supercat]

Wait til the first terrorist gets on a flight with a knife and starts cutting throats til the pilot opens the door. It will happen.

An the pilot's job would be to remain behind the locked cockpit door while landing the plane as quickly as practical, with a gun ready in case someone tries to break into the cockpit.

If terrorists start slashing people's throats, they are going to have all the passengers against them. Four terrorists armed with knives might be able to fatally injure a dozen or so people before being subdued, but the numbers would be so vastly against the terrorists the carnage would be limitted.

More significantly, I don't think a terrorist attack which was fought off--even with loss of innocent life--would have nearly the psychological impact on the country as one which wasn't, even if the latter resulted in fewer innocent casualties.

[billsux]

I never thought I would agree about a strike having seen some strikes that left me dumbfounded for their reasons (MLB comes to mind as do a couple teacher strikes). But this... they HAVE to strike. ASAP. This is a hell of a lot more important than health bennies or a 7% pay raise or whatever.

[supercat]

No more terrorist attacks like those experienced on September 11th will occur. This sentiment is merely wishful thinking and cannot be substantiated. In fact, the intelligence community and the TSA strongly indicate that the threat to aviation is still very high.

Actually, it's not just wishful thinking. The terrorists' real weapon on 9/11 was the attitude of acquiescence toward criminals in general, hijackers in particular, which was included in flight crew training and the public conciousness. That weapon is now gone, and it will be at least a decade before terrorists get it back, if they ever do.

[supercat]

Wouldn't it be nice if the door opened and the hijacker was greeted with guns a-blazin'?

No. A pilot's job is to keep control of his airplane. For the pilot to intervene in the cabin would be to risk losing control of the aircraft.

As long as the pilot remains in the cockpit, the only possible direction of attack is through the door, and identification of friend/foe is easy. Essentially, the pilot just has to make a center-of-mass shot at any unauthorized person forcing their way into the cockpit. Not exactly a task requiring a high degree of marksmanship or expert judgement. Nearly any situation involving intervention in the cabin will require far greater skills in marksmanship and friend/foe identification. Given the possibility of a hijacker posing as a "friend" who assists in subduing other (decoy) hijackers, pilot intervention in cabin disturbances is a recipe for disaster.

[Uncle Bill]

Thanks much! Bump.

[Myrddin]

I agree that my CCW gun is for my self defense. I take it to the range often to maintain my marksmanship skills, but I don't carry it often. I wouldn't carry it on an aircraft without a release of liability from the airline. The pilots need similar release of liability for defending the aircraft. The probability of getting such a release is so remote that it hardly bears any further consideration.

[Crowcreek]

You do know, of course that those doors won't open in flight,

You're another 'self-made' expert, I see . . .

[Mulder]

Our government was instituted to secure our Rights. That is it's sole purpose for existing. But instead of securing them, they are trampling them, denying them, and infringing upon them. It is now a daily occurence.

So what then, one may ask, is the purpose of even having a Federal government anymore if they are not going to secure our Rights?

[Crowcreek]

"The terrorists' real weapon on 9/11 was the attitude of acquiescence"

Another knife-fighting expert . . .

[willyone]

What pisses me off is that it appears that the decision has been made to let another attack happen. No effort has been made to control the borders or restrict the inflow of ME men. This administration is nuts.

[Texasforever]

As long as the pilot remains in the cockpit, the only possible direction of attack is through the door, and identification of friend/foe is easy.

Picture in your mind the cockpit of a commercial airliner and the total amount of room once you are through the door. Then ask your self where to put the bodies as the each is shot without losing the advantage of the "choke point". How many downed hijackers OR passengers before the flight crew has no room to maneuver at all? I am not against the pilots being armed but dammit it is not an end unto itself.

[Mulder]

This administration is nuts.

It's all part of a secret plan. Trust Bush.

[willyone]

This was a Jorge Bush decision not a Demo one. Wake up to the liberal in the White House. Might as well have Clinton as the bunch we have now. You expected Clinton to do something like this.