India, Pakistan Trade Heavy Fire, Tensions High

Reuters/Yahoo ^ | 5-20-2002 | Penny McRae

[CROSSHIGHWAYMAN]

This problem potentially dwarfs the war between Israel and the Palestinian devils. Imagine if just one arab dictatorship had nuclear weapons.

All the more urgency to defang Saddam Hussein and his tinhorn neighbors soon!!

[Dog Gone]

most analysts said New Delhi was likely to exhaust all diplomatic channels before taking a military option.

India is doing just the opposite. They are expelling the Pakistani ambassador to India, and they withdrew their own ambassador months ago. They've cut communications, travel, and even overflight privileges.

The one thing they are NOT doing is talking to the Pakistan government.

India is either banging the wardrums for domestic political purposes with no intention of actually attacking, or they are simply insane. The latter is not out of the question, because the hatred between those two countries is pathological.

[Free the USA]

Check the Bump List folders for articles related to and descriptions of the above topic(s) or for other topics of interest.

[mewzilla]

Or maybe the Indian gov't believes that Musharef is about to lose control and the Indians want to be ready if things go south.

[Burr5]

Is INDIA insane? Seems to me that it is Pakistan that continues to either support or ignore a series of murderous cross-border terrorist attacks against the Hindus in Kashmir, e.g. the 34 civilians that were murdered in a single attack just this week. It also seems, if other posts on this forum are to be believed, that support for a nuclear first-strike against India is running quite high among the Paks. Their Madrasas are, after all, filled with hateful barbarians who dream of flying airliners into the Sears Tower at their first opportunity. I would support India in whatever action they take. Unfortunately, Musharaf is OUR "ally". A war between the two might complicate our war on terrorism- but were India to CONQUER Pakistan, it might simplify our work significantly. Here's hoping the USA won't prove too steadfast an ally for the Paks.

[Dog Gone]

I don't take the comments about a Pakistani first strike too seriously. I'm sure some people there hate India enough to engage in what would effectively be a suicidal gesture, but they aren't the ones in control of the nukes.

I think India could conquer Pakistan, although not without a devastating nuclear exchange as the cost. But if it did, it wouldn't be able to govern it. The Pakistanis are probably the most heavily-armed citizens on the planet, and Indian troops would never be safe there.

I sympathize with the Indian position. The attacks in Kashmir are unacceptable. But if they're bad in Kashmir, just think what they'd be like if India occupied all or part of Pakistan itself.

[crystalk]

India could, if it wished, in a matter of weeks conquer the whole of Pakistan by conventional warfare, and set up a puppet state there like they did in Bangladesh.

[RightWhale]

It's a heck of a place where they can trade heavy fire for 4 days and still say they are not at war. Anybody know the size of the morters? Are they using the 160 mm or have they started with the 260 mm?

[SauronOfMordor]

but were India to CONQUER Pakistan, it might simplify our work significantly.

India may be able to conquer Pakistan (ie defeat/destroy its armed forces), but it will not be able to occupy/rule Pakistan. It would probably find itself having to ethnicly cleanse Kashmir and Pakistan by driving all the Muslims into Afghanistan or Iran

[Dog Gone]

150 million people is a lot to kill or put on boxcars. I don't see it.

[AM2000]

The years around Partition saw about 40 million Hindus and Muslims either killed or put on boxcars. If 40's doable, then 150 is too. Just a matter of scale.

Not that I think that's right, of course.

[Dog Gone]

Yeah, there was a lot of that sort of thing going on in the 1940's.

I don't quite understand the mentality of those who think that "transfer" is a solution to problems on the border of a country, whether it's here or in Israel. Even if the logistical problems are overcome, all that has been accomplished is a new location for border problems. I think what these people really want is genocide, but it's not considered a polite thing to say.

That solution makes a lot more sense. The Indian/Pakistani conflict could finally be resolved if one of them successfully eliminated the other entirely. Short of achieving that goal, the parties need to sit down and figure out a way to peacefully co-exist.

Neither solution seems to be achievable, for some reason.

[Ohioan]

The potential for this thing to get out of hand, appears to be very great indeed. It is, frankly, amazing to me that this conflict gets relatively so little attention in the West. (It is not that we can do very much to prevent an explosion. But it deserves a lot more attention than it is getting. Keep in mind that it isn't just the 1,000,000,000+ people now on the Indian sub-continent. There is the immense Nation of Red China to the North, that might possibly try to pick up the pieces after a devastating exchange between the Hindus and Moslems.)

No, I do not have any good idea as to what we can or should do. But the lack of attention is very striking. If this thing gets well underway, it may be the only news from the year 2002, that anyone will be studying in 2052.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[Dog Gone]

I don't think it gets any attention because few reporters understand it.

Besides, it's just a conflict between Hindus and Moslems in a region where toilet paper is rare. There's no Muslim lobby or Hindu lobby in this country to speak of, and the whole region has been off of the American radar for some time. In fact, George W Bush couldn't give the name of the Pakistani president when he was ambushed by a journalist early in his campaign.

There aren't enough Christians, Jews, or "white people" involved to make the situation interesting, I guess. That's completely wrong, of course, but the press is often wrong.

[AM2000]

...the immense Nation of Red China to the North, that might possibly try to pick up the pieces after a devastating exchange between the Hindus and Moslems

Well, South Asia has already been occupied/oppressed by Arabs (the Mughal dynasty) and Europeans (colonialism).

I guess it is the yellow mans turn.

I mean no disrespect.

[Arioch7]

I agree with mewzilla.

MAybe they are quite simply fed up with all this BS. Pakistan formed solely because once the population converted to ISlam, they went insane. There was no reasoning with them.

India wanted to kick some ass but the world(Britian in particular," intervened and thus Pakistan was born.

Its not enough, it is never enough. Yes, they hate eachother in KAshmir but do you honestly think that if INdia walked away, the HIndus would have peace under Muslim governance? THAT is INSANE.

If you think I am sick of them then just imagine hoe India feels...

[Dog Gone]

Turkey is the only place I know of where one can comfortably be something other than a moslem in an Islamic society. If moslems controlled all of Kashmir, I'm sure the Hindus would be oppressed, at a minimum.

Right now, it's probably not too comfortable to be a muslim in western India, either, but I think that's generally an isolated problem. Muslims have been historically more intolerant and Hindu extremists we are seeing more of are probably a reaction to that.

Unfortunately, it seems as if it's getting more polarized, not less, at a time when each side is more capable of killing hundreds of thousands of people with their new war toys.

[Former Proud Canadian]

What is so insane about the Indians wanting to root out and destroy muslim invaders in pakistan? If the American public knew how al-queada and the taliban came to power (through the good offices of paki intelligence services) and are still supported to this day by elements of the pak government, they would be demanding the US join the Indians.

[Dog Gone]

I think the American public already knows that. It certainly hasn't been hidden from them.

As to why it's insane, read further down the thread. An attack by India might achieve its military goal, but it wouldn't stop terrorism.