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Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese (Debate? "Gay" is a disqualifying frame of mind)
Centre Daily Times (State College PA) ^ | May. 12, 2002 | Mike Joseph

Posted on 05/12/2002 12:41:51 PM PDT by Notwithstanding







Posted on Sun, May. 12, 2002


Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese



By Mike Joseph

mjoseph@centredaily.com

With the Roman Catholic Church engulfed in a widespread sexual abuse scandal, conservative critics of the local bishop have stepped up their campaign to pressure him to stop using a priesthood candidate evaluator whose views on homosexuality they consider too liberal.

The campaign has included attacks on Web sites and an anonymous newspaper advertisement suggesting churchgoers consider withholding money until, among other things, the bishop "removes" the targeted evaluator, State College psychologist David J. Brown.

Although Altoona-Johnstown Diocese Bishop Joseph Adamec said collections and other charitable donations have not declined, some Catholic faithful who haven't before taken sides say they have considered using money to leverage a clarification and elaboration of diocesan policy from the bishop.

"We want the priests and the bishop to follow the teachings of the church. It's bizarre to have to say that, but that's what we want," said Mary Risley, 40, a parent and a parishioner at Our Lady of Victory Church in State College.

Risley said she has herself considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding church contributions because the money pays for important work that helps people. But during an informal social gathering last week, she recalled in an interview, the idea provoked an earnest, if relaxed, discussion among about 16 women, eight of whom are Catholics.

"Yes, we have truly thought about it because we don't think we're getting the whole story," Risley said. "I would like to get more clarification, but I would feel in my heart I was letting someone down if I did not support the work of the diocese. ... The bishop needs to address this issue."

Adamec said at a news conference last week that contributions have not diminished since the clergy sexual abuse scandal broke open two months ago. But last month -- in a letter that priests read to parishioners -- the bishop seemed to be mindful at least of the possibility.

"Know that your gifts were not used and will not be used to pay for legal defense or settlement of any claim in matters of litigation," the bishop wrote.

Taking stock of vows

The issue stirring some elements of the diocese is related to one that has made Catholics across America take stock of their faith and ask whether diocesan policies contribute to a secretive culture of homosexuality in the priesthood and the sexual abuse of young boys, allegations of which have saturated the press for the last two months.

More specifically, Catholics are debating whether being gay should be sufficient cause to exclude a man from the priesthood or whether a man's ability to honor vows of celibacy --regardless of his sexuality --should be decisive.

The debate ranges from anguished discussions about whether institutionalized celibacy vows attract psychosexually immature men to the priesthood to reminders that Mychal Judge -- the 68-year-old Catholic priest and fire chaplain who perished while helping others during the Sept. 11 rescue effort at the World Trade Center -- was gay.

While the policy of the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese and most other dioceses in America makes the prospect of celibacy the deciding factor, some dioceses, including the Philadelphia Archdiocese, screen out priesthood candidates with gay tendencies. The issue is expected to be hotly debated when American bishops meet in Dallas in June to try to adopt national protocols to prevent sexual abuse among clergy.

The nationwide scandal has led critics of Adamec and Brown in the local diocese to turn up the volume of their attacks, which include accusations that diocesan policy is heretical and which renew a debate that flared three years ago when the State College Area School District was considering a policy to prohibit harassment on the basis of sexual orientation.

One of the most vocal critics then, and now, has been Gary L. Morella, 55, a Penn State research assistant, father of three and grandfather of three, former altar boy and parochial school graduate. Morella, who fondly recalls the Latin Mass, has nearly completed a graduate degree in medieval Catholic philosophy for which he has written about the tension between faith and reason in the differences between St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas.

Morella, who views homosexuality as a development disorder that can be changed, said in an interview last week that his work to expose heresy in the church had its genesis about eight years ago as he watched a TV program featuring the historian John Dominic Crossan, author of the "The Historical Jesus" and "The Birth of Christianity."

"He said Jesus Christ died a beggar's death on the cross and his body was eaten by ravenous dogs -- he denied the Resurrection," Morella said. "I looked at this and I was watching this and I thought to myself, well, this man is insane. And then I saw that he was on the faculty of DePaul University, and that just lit up everything. I realized that there are major problems here, and I've been like this ever since."

Last month, a spokesman for Pope John Paul II, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, voiced his opinion that people with homosexual inclinations should not be ordained. Morella asserts that instances of the will of the Vatican are being defied by many dioceses in the United States, including the Altoona-Johnstown Diocese.

"I think that what's called for is a papal legate," Morella said. "I think that we need an enforcer to go to the dioceses in this country. I think the situation has gotten so out of control that we need nothing less than firsthand intervention from Rome itself to straighten this out."

Vocal psychologist foes

Morella said he had nothing to do with the a Centre Daily Times advertisement suggesting church contributions be withheld, though he said he understands the "frustration" that led to it.

The two-column ad in Wednesday's CDT noted that the bishop has just launched his annual appeal for donations and "suggested ... withholding our money" until he says how much "he has paid out to silence" sexual abuse victims, until he gives names of "known abusers" to the authorities and "until he removes the controversial psychologist."

Attempts by a reporter to identify who placed the ad were inconclusive. The CDT's advertising department refused to disclose the source, citing a policy of confidentiality. But another critic of the diocese administration, Harris Township resident Brian Kaleita, said in an interview that he knew who placed the ad, though he declined to answer a follow-up question asking whether he himself had done so.

In the interview, Kaleita described himself as a conservative leader in the community and said it is his view that homosexuals are entitled to every right that anyone else is but not to special treatment, the position of some opponents of the school district's anti-harassment policy proposal three years ago.

Kaleita said that "every right" does not include admission to seminaries because Vatican law is more restrictive, barring gay men from the clergy. He said Adamec is not following that law.

"The problem with our bishop is that he sees things the way Dr. Brown does instead of the way the pope does," Kaleita said. "We have a bishop who chooses to ignore the clear meaning of the teachings directly from Rome."

By contrast, many devout Catholics see the sexual abuse crisis in the church today as stemming not from one's sexual orientation but from sexual immaturity fostered by institutional church policy.

State College resident Herman Knoble, 59, is a Penn State research associate and a committed Catholic who attends Good Shepherd Catholic Church. Like Morella, he was an altar boy and a parochial school graduate. But unlike Morella, he views homosexuality as an innate trait for which someone cannot be blamed.

Knoble asserts that promiscuity is wrong and faults the Vatican for fostering an atmosphere of immature sexual development and exerting unnatural and inordinate control over "pelvic issues" that leads to sexual experimentation in immature and sometimes abusive ways.

"The Catholic Church needs to take a strong look at itself in how it tries to use orthodoxy to control people -- that is the crux of the issue," Knoble said. "Anything that has to do with sexuality, they want to control, not just people in the pews but everybody."

Brown, 58, the State College psychologist who does psychological evaluations for the diocese, said he had no doubt that he was the target of the anonymous ad. He said the ad appeared to signal an escalation of efforts by some conservative Catholics to pressure Adamec to discontinue contract work with him.

The Altoona-Johnstown Diocese includes 104 parish priests and about 112,000 parishioners. As the head of the diocese, Adamec uses Brown to provide about half of the psychological evaluations of priesthood applicants.

Brown said in an interview that he has conducted about 200 psychological evaluations of seminary candidates in the last 25 years, and that virtually none of them admits to gay orientation during the interviews. Brown said his report to the diocese about a candidate's sexual orientation includes what the candidate says, what the tests show and what he himself thinks.

In response to some of the accusations made against him, Brown said he has never given an unfavorable recommendation on a priesthood candidate because the candidate is heterosexual, and has never endorsed someone because he is gay or liberal.

He said perhaps one out of every four of the 200 seminary candidates he has screened has become a priest, and he said none of those priests has ever been accused or otherwise been alleged to have been sexually abusive to anyone.

"I'm proud of my record," Brown said.

His critics have also accused him of telling some candidates they were "too rigid," as Morella phrased it, referring to the infallibility of church doctrine on faith and morality.

Brown said that such a commentary on someone's personality would never come up in the psychological evaluation interview itself but could come up weeks later if a candidate sought feedback on the evaluation, part of which is a standard test designed to measure rigidity and other characteristics.

"Rigidity is a personality dimension that can apply to all ideological perspectives," Brown said.

Brown faulted his own critics for their narrow focus on right and wrong.

"They think there's only one right way to be and anything else is sinful," he said. "It really is just a discrimination against homosexuality."

Risley, the parent who has considered, but rejected, the idea of withholding contributions, is a parochial school graduate, she said the clergy sexual abuse scandal has not shaken her faith in the church because her faith does not rely on priests.

She said "there seems to be an issue with Dr. Brown" and that the bishop should address it. She said she has not yet come to a conclusion about whether men with gay tendencies should be barred from seminaries.

But she said that something needs to be done to prevent the abuse of children at the hands of the clergy and that, at some point, that could be withholding contributions, an action that might force church leaders to remember the origins of Christianity.

"If this is what it takes, if it takes our priest and our bishops standing on the corner begging for money to help the poor that's how it all started," she said.

Mike Joseph can be reached at 235-3910.




© 2001 centredaily and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.centredaily.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gay; homsexual; scandal
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
According to Church teachings, you are bestowed with the holy gift of being able to forgive my sins in place of Jesus

That's not quite how it works.

61 posted on 05/12/2002 8:44:23 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
With all due respect, when you suggest that the personal unworthiness or sinfulness or state of mortal sin of the minister of the sacrament invalidates the sacrament, you are wrong. That idea was the key error of the Donatist heresy of the 4th century. If your suggestion were true then none of us would ever know if our sins had been forgiven, nor whether we had really received the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist on any given occasion, whether in Matrimony (as to the state of the soul of one's spouse as a minister of that sacrament) you have really become married, etc. This would be irrational anarchy.
62 posted on 05/12/2002 8:51:16 PM PDT by BlackElk
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To: leilani
"So the idea that a priest in the church should even define themself as homosexual, celibate or not, defies the Church's teachings".

OF COURSE THAT'S TRUE. Nor should a priest define themselves as heterosexual or pansexual or any-which-way-sexual.
But people are born certain ways: heterosexual, homosexual, non-sexual, pan-sexual, whaterverwhichwaysexual. That's a FACT. That's how God ordered the world, whether or not you care for that reality.

God WHO? Certainly not the God of the Bible.

Nowhere in the Bible or the Judeo-Christian faith will you find any teaching that God "ordered" homosexuality, pedophilia or any other sexual perversion.
Why would God "order" things which He condemns as sin and prohibits?
Is God the creator of sin? I don't think so.

But once again, the Bible teaches that heterosexuality is God's design and created intent for human sexuality.
There is nothing inherently sinful about identifying oneself as heterosexual.

63 posted on 05/12/2002 8:56:39 PM PDT by Jorge
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To: yendu bwam
If they don't come out and tell you that they're gay and they really are celibate as far as you know, how in the world do you tell?

I know men who you'd think were gay because they act a little effeminate but they're not! And then I've seen big, macho looking and acting men who are. How do you tell?

To tell the truth, I'm pretty paranoid right now.

64 posted on 05/12/2002 9:01:37 PM PDT by tiki
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Comment #65 Removed by Moderator

To: leilani
The big difference, and it is a BIG difference, is that heterosexuality is a natural inclination well ordered by GodHimself. Homosexuality is a sick mental/spiritual disorder that is resoundingly condemned by God in his revealed word time and time again. DISORDERED people must not be ordained to the priesthood... or you will have mollestation problems.
66 posted on 05/13/2002 12:22:12 AM PDT by Thundergod
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To: leilani
But people are born certain ways: heterosexual, homosexual...

The Holy Father has already named this very statement as blasphemy against God, Who tempts no man to sin. I suggest you repent for the sake of your soul.
67 posted on 05/13/2002 12:30:44 AM PDT by Thundergod
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To: Goldhammer
That's right. Jesus adminsters the Sacraments through his priests, no matter how wretched they may be and no matter what state of mind they may be in.
68 posted on 05/13/2002 12:32:14 AM PDT by Thundergod
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To: tbeatty
The penantant person only has to believe that the priest is in good standing. So the priest in the confession booth could be the biggest homosexual on the planet and as long as you believe in the miracle of faith and you do your penance as prescribed, you are saved.

Not true. The priest, acting in persona Christi (that is in the person of Christ), must give absolution. Were you ever a Catholic? Even a child catechetic would know this. Your posts remind me of a line from The Grandmother Song, by Steve Martin: Always criticize things you don't know about...
69 posted on 05/13/2002 12:37:14 AM PDT by Thundergod
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To: tiki
If they don't come out and tell you that they're gay and they really are celibate as far as you know, how in the world do you tell?

Not knowing, I won't let my teenage sons be around any priest. And it's not paranoia on my part, just good sense given what the American Catholic Church has allowed.

70 posted on 05/13/2002 4:20:03 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: leilani
You can't blame this on all gays any more than you can blame male on female rape on all heterosexual guys, OK?

It's wrong to blame this on all homosexuals. But when virtually all of the molestation has occurred at the hands (and other parts) of homosexual priests, AND given that they are still (barely, it would seem) a minority in the priesthood, there is a very clear link between homosexuality and these molestations. Just think. The majority of priests are heterosexual, but the vast, vast majority of the cases are homosexual. There are indeed honorable homosexual priests. But many of them are sexually attracted to teenage boys, and a good many of those can't control their attractions.

71 posted on 05/13/2002 5:28:18 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: tbeatty
Homosexuals will not be priests. If the Catholic Church gives the stamp of approval to homosexuals, then every female should get up and move to another church. No woman should ever be told she is not worthy of the priesthood and then sit in mass and watch a " female pretender" or "girly wanna be" tell her how she can live a better life. Puuuuuuuuuleeeze. A night of rest stop sex on I-95 followed by saying mass is not an option.
72 posted on 05/13/2002 5:29:25 AM PDT by oldironsides
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To: BlackElk
There is a distinction between "compassion for the person" and putting that intrinsically disordered person in a position wherein he has access to youth of his own sex in what amounts to "the near occasion of sin" as we call it. You are perfectly free to be compassionate but not at the expense of the innocence of children. Something about millstones. Furthermore, it is not compassionate to the homosexual to place him in the near occasion of sin. And it is downright ludicrous and scandalous to set up separate castes within the priesthood of those trusted to be near young men and those who are not.

Very well put, BlackElk. I agree. We should be extremely compassionate for those who suffer from disordered homosexual inclinations. We are called to love everyone, and that includes homosexuals. But it is crazy to bring homosexuals into seminaries, where they shower, sleep and live together with men for extended periods of time. (And the craziness of this is well-illustrated by the rampant homosexual activities that have been going on in many seminaries.) Further, to have a priesthood filled with homosexuals, and then expect parents to either feel safe with their teenage sons in close proximity to such priests, or to expect that our teenage sons are going to get a good grounding in Catholic sexual morality, is asking us to forego common sense and reason. While this situation exists in the American Catholic Church, we can never feel secure about priests being around our teenage sons.

73 posted on 05/13/2002 5:36:09 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: BlackElk
The idea that we cannot really know and we will just have to take the word of each seminarian for it is how we got into this mess in the first place.

Well, how do we know who is gay and who is not?

You can't know. There are no tests which screen for homosexuality.

Do seminary boards just guess?

74 posted on 05/13/2002 5:51:03 AM PDT by sinkspur
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To: oldironsides
The Church has NEVER said that women are unworthy of the priesthood. Priests are servants and the Holy Father is called Servant of the Servants of Christ. Men are called to serve women and other men and children in the priesthood. I think this places women over the priests, not under them as unworthy.
75 posted on 05/13/2002 1:46:54 PM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Thundergod
Not true. The priest, acting in persona Christi (that is in the person of Christ), must give absolution. Were you ever a Catholic? Even a child catechetic would know this. Your posts remind me of a line from The Grandmother Song, by Steve Martin: Always criticize things you don't know about...

What are you talking about? This is my point. Regardless of the standing of the priest with Christ, the sinner needs only absolution from that priest. It only matters that the sinner believes he received absolution from someone who is able to give it. It matters not whether the priest is in good standing. I didn't criticize it, I defended it. Where are you coming from?

76 posted on 05/13/2002 6:17:24 PM PDT by tbeatty
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To: tbeatty
It's not what you posted. Not at all. Perhaps it may be what you MEANT to post, but it's not what you posted. Make yourself more clear. Come on. Human language is all we have to go on, here.
77 posted on 05/13/2002 6:52:43 PM PDT by Thundergod
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To: sinkspur
Seminary boards? What are you talking about? Try Diocese Vocational Director. How can you be so consistently out of touch. Your claim of being Catholic is falling flat, pal.

Our new Vocational Director in Tucson is a Gay Priest. He/she/it decides who goes to the seminary and who is denied.

Looks like our "progressive" bishop and coadjutor are right on the cutting edge of solving the sexual scandal in the Church. (/sarcasm)
78 posted on 05/13/2002 9:38:15 PM PDT by Thundergod
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To: sinkspur
ME: American Catholic Catechism is wrong in part, and the Pope has ordered the American Bishops repeatedly to change it to comply with Catholic teaching.

YOU: I have the latest version, which was approved by John Paul II, and it says exactly what the earlier version said about homosexuality.

THE EARLIER VERSION THAT THE POPE DECLARED BLASPHEMOUS: CCC, 2358: The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial...

THE LATEST VERSION (WHICH DOES NOT SAY EXACTLY WHAT THE EARLIER VERSION SAID ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY BECAUSE THE POPE MADE THEM CORRECT IT): CCC, 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial...

I put the tricky parts in bold so that you could see the difference. I know this has all been very difficult for you, but I'm sincerely trying to help. The American-make-it-up-as-you-go-along-catholic-church puts out so much cleverly evil propaganda and false teaching, that it is sometimes dificult to find the truth. But here we are, muddling our way through the morass. You asked for a citation, and here it is.
79 posted on 05/14/2002 4:03:26 AM PDT by Thorondir
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To: Thorondir
That is a HUGE difference. Thanks for pointing it out. I new the Catechism had come out in a final revised edition (the new green dustcover), but I didn't realize that there were such dramatic errors to be corrected.
80 posted on 05/14/2002 10:53:27 AM PDT by Siobhan
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