Debate on gays in priesthood roils diocese (Debate? "Gay" is a disqualifying frame of mind)

Centre Daily Times (State College PA) ^ | May. 12, 2002 | Mike Joseph

[Notwithstanding]

NB: If one claims the label "gay" then he is claiming that the disordered desire to engage in homosexual acts is fun and a positive aspect of his life. Someone with that attitude should NOT be a shepherding a Christian flock, whereas one who HATES and resists the temptation to act out homsexuality could make a fine priest.

Its like an alcoholic claiming that having the uncontrollable desire to drink is a fun and enriching aspect of his life. Someone with this attitude should not be leading a flock either, whereas one who hates this addiction and fights it could make a fine priest.

[JimVT]

More specifically, Catholics are debating whether being gay should be sufficient cause to exclude a man from the priesthood or whether a man's ability to honor vows of celibacy --regardless of his sexuality --should be decisive

The first thing every Catholic should do is drop the word "gay" from their vocabularies when referring to homosexuals

[Notwithstanding]

Ditto - see my post 2 above.

[yendu bwam]

I will not allow priests who are potential homosexual molesters to EVER be alone with my teenage sons. I will not allow homosexually active priests to EVER be around my teenage sons. I will not allow homosexual priests who are not active to be around my teenage sons, because I don't trust them to teach true Catholic and Christian sexual morality to my sons. Since I do not know who is who, I will NEVER, EVER allow a Catholic priest to be alone or in close quarters with my teenage sons. The Catholic Church must decide - if they want a predominantly homosexual male clergy, my family and my sons will distance ourselves from this church.

[madprof98]

State College resident Herman Knoble, 59, is a Penn State research associate and a committed Catholic . . . "The Catholic Church needs to take a strong look at itself in how it tries to use orthodoxy to control people -- that is the crux of the issue," Knoble said. "Anything that has to do with sexuality, they want to control, not just people in the pews but everybody."

Yeah, like all that nasty anti-choice stuff they used to push . . . back in the days before the NYTimes nailed them all as pedophiles!

[tbeatty]

I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood. Engaging in homosexual acts is however. Priests tale vows of chastity. Priests deny themselves lust whether it's homosexual or heterosexual lust. To say one is acceptable and the other isn't doesn't seem to be right. Both types of lust are not to be acted upon. And neither of them are compatible with the priesthood.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not? There are plenty of homosexuals out there who are not priests. In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

[sinkspur]

I don't think being gay is disqualfying for the priesthood.

There is no formal test that determines whether one is homosexual or heterosexual (although there are some crude ways one could use to make a judgment). Thus, seminary authorities would have to guess, or ask the question about orientation and assume that the applicant isn't lying.

[yendu bwam]

How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not? There are plenty of homosexuals out there who are not priests. In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

That's a fair question, and of course, you're right. You can't know. When my sons joined Boy Scouts, I went on many, many camping trips with my sons until I knew reasonably well all the fathers and scoutleaders who lead those trips. Though one can never be sure about anything, there was never any inappropriate activity or sexual innuendo, nor have there ever been any complaints by kids or parents in my sons' troop. Still, I am vigilant, because, unfortunately, a troop of teenage boys does attract homosexual molesters. I know of course that not all homosexual men are molesters. But many homosexual men have strong sexual attractions to teenage boys. The point here is not that you can make anything totally safe, but that if a man declares his preference for sexual activity with men, it is entirely inappropriate for him to be in close quarters with your teenage (i.e., sexually mature) sons.

[yendu bwam]

How can you magically 'know' who is homosexual and who is not? There are plenty of homosexuals out there who are not priests. In light of the fact that they do not wear this tattooed on their foreheads, how will you 'know' and keep your sons away from them?

The other thing I should have mentioned is that we don't try to keep our sons away from all homosexuals. I have a very good friend who is homosexual, and he is a friend of the family. That is far, far different, though, from having your sons being in close and intimate quarters on a faraway camping trip with a homosexual man - particularly a man in a position of authority over my kids. Such a situation is an invitation for abuse - just like what's been happening in the Catholic Church.

[Notwithstanding]

< sarcasm > Because if he did not he might get sued for failing to get the counsel of experts - woops thats what some of our bishops did and now folks ar emad because they followed the advice of these experts......

Since we hate bishops anyway, we might as well just pile on - either way they are in deep doo-doo!!!!! < /sarcasm >

[Notwithstanding]

You missed it: "gay" is a very sad word, loaded with sad meaning.

"gay" = "proud, glad, and enriched to have same-sex attractions"

"gay" does NOT equal "homosexual"

Anyone glad to have such a disorder is not fit to be a priest.

[sinkspur]

Why does the bishop allow secular "experts" to approve who does or does not become a Catholic priest?

Most dioceses have recently appointed outside psychological experts and laymen to vocation boards who interview candidates.

The clerical "experts," after all, haven't done a very good job, have they?

[Thorondir]

WRONG! Pope Leo XIII once wrote that homosexuality is "a sin so vile that even the angels of hell are repulsed by it". The Church has ALWAYS condemned it and even the new testament says that God leaves homosexuals "to the death they deserve" and refuses to help them. Look, I am no homophobe. I feel sorry for the poor, sickly, disordered wierdos. But what in hell kind of foolish thinking does it take to make one ordain a SODOMITE to the priesthood? For cripes sake! The present scandal is one of homosexuality in the priesthood, not pedophelia. Remember that pedophilia is sex with preteens. But the Sodomite priests have buggered boys in their late teens to the tune of more than 95% of all the cases. Do I have to tell you that men who have sex with young men are sodomites? Is it THAT difficult for you?

[sinkspur]

The Church has ALWAYS condemned it and even the new testament says that God leaves homosexuals "to the death they deserve" and refuses to help them.

The Church does not condemn the homosexual; homosexual ACTS are disordered and are sinful.

I daresay God does help homosexuals, if they ask.

[Thorondir]

IF they ask. But how will that happen if we keep telling them that their sexual disorientation is just an alternate healthy lifestyle? Read the passage in Romans. It is very harsh and says just what I told you it does. Read it.

[Thorondir]

FURTHERMORE: Don't confuse the words "it" and "them", my friend. They have different meanings.