[martin gibson]

HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST - No, he was a fascist.

No, xm177e2, you are wrong. Hitler was a socialist.

I am sure you know that the proper noun 'Nazi' is historically understood to be constructed from the German 'nationalsozialismus' translated as 'national socialism'.

In fact, as early as 1920, the National Socialist German Workers Party under Adolph Hitler was advocating income and war profit redistribution, profit-sharing in large industries, nationalization of trusts, free public education and a number of other social reforms commonly associated with the political left.

Unlike our neo-Stalinist buddies, we cannot allow words to mean whatever we feel they should mean, nor can we arbitrarly change definitions to suit a political agenda.

A neo-Stalinists is a Nazi is a Brown Shirt is a feminist is a liberal.

I could really use some help down here in the language war.

[xm177e2]

Hitler was not a "socialist," he was a fascist. There was a difference. The socialists were against nationalism, Hitler reveled in it. The socialists were against private business, businessmen were lauded in Nazi Germany.

Fascism was a middle point between capitalism and socialism (that's how they described it in the 1930s), it's what Rand is talking about when she says bread and poison can't coexist equally. Just because it was a little more capitalist, that doesn't mean it's any better.

[stands2reason]

To me, in the simplest of terms, there's no question Hitler's party was aptly named--"National Socialist"--Socialist as in, for the good of the country above the individual, and nationalist as in "our country first".
Nationalism, though, seems to be a rightist philosophy--maybe Hitler's nationalism was more apparent than his socialism, since his extreme nationalism is what we had to deal with, while his socialism was displayed in his domestic affairs. What we saw in Europe in the post WWII years was an overreaction to the strong nationalism of Nazi Germany--one that went so far that they had hit the other extreme, which we are now beginning to see turn back again towards (hopefully normal) nationalism. Europe has got to learn nationalism doesn't necessarily mean Naziism.

[Salman]

In fact, as early as 1920, the National Socialist German Workers Party...

As distinct from Stalinism. Rival gangsters are still rivals even though they are both gangsters. No need to chop logic about what a "real" socialist is. Leave that to the socialists. It's a matter of style, and the Stalin-Hitler pact was a tactical alliance.