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Drudge on Crossfire, eating Begala alive...........

Coming up next on CROSSFIRE, Matt Drudge. A legend in his own mind or a high quality Internet gossip? And round six, I'll pound some sense into Mr. Tucker Carlson about the White House's whining over federal judges.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: You may love him, you may hate him. You may even pretend you don't know who he is. But of course you do. He's Matt Drudge, Internet gossip monger, one man news services, one of the biggest names on the worldwide web. He joins tonight to debate the state of American journalism and his place in it. Ladies and gentlemen, Matt Drudge.

CARLSON: Nice to see you, Matt.

Thanks for joining us.

MATT DRUDGE, "DRUDGE REPORT": So I'm still a gossip monger at all of these years?

BEGALA: I left it as a question.

CARLSON: But you're outside that. I think of you as being in a darkened room with computer screens. It's nice to see you out.

DRUDGE: Thank you.

CARLSON: You're welcome. Now Clinton, talk show. Now if you're a member of the new media, it strikes me that Clinton would be the new, new media, kind of post modern talk show. Do you if he does it, it would work?

DRUDGE: We're still crazy after all of these years? I mean, I'm looking at a calendar that's the 21st century. I don't think Bill Clinton's got a chance on television. I don't think NBC would pay him $1 million, let alone $50 million. I think these are his friends. You know them, Jeff Zucker, Andy Lack, very close to the Democratic party. I just assume it's friends getting together in Burbank over wild turkeys.

BEGALA: Andy Lack fired my ass at MSNBC. He wasn't a very good friend of mine back then. I don't know friends of Democrats. In fact, though, President Clinton, of course, not going to do anything like that. But let me read you a statement that his spokesperson gave to CNN. I'll put it up on the screen here. "President Clinton has no plans to do a talk show, but he has told me he's jealous of Paul and James' gig on CROSSFIRE." That's from Julia Payne.

CARLSON: That shows us how low he has sunk.

BEGALA: He's actually watching. No what he does is he hits the mute button when Carlson is speaking. Makes it a much better show. You show try that at home.

DRUDGE: But the press certainly is -- you know, Bush is being, you know, quite boring when it comes to show business and media. We're having this big White House dinner tomorrow night. Ozzy Osborne's the big star over at Fox News channel. Greta Van Susteren's hired Ozzy for the night. I would think we miss Clinton because it was so dramatic, it was so soap opera, where Bush is a little bit more sober, and not sort of staining the carpet.

BEGALA: You know, Bush actually used to bite the heads off of live bats, too. It's just -- it's not well known. But I'm from Austin. He and Ozzy were like this.

DRUDGE: But we miss him, I think's the bottom line. So does the press. The front page of every paper today is this report that's years old that he may do a TV show, which we clearly know he won't do. BEGALA: Right. Actually, let me ask you about part of your role in that little melodrama. And it was one that affected a dear friend of mine personally. It was a lawsuit. It's long gone. It's gone away. But my view, you were told something that was defamatory.

DRUDGE: Yes.

BEGALA: About a friend of mine, Sid Blumenthal, I used to work with at the White House.

DRUDGE: He's a friend of yours?

BEGALA: Yes, he is.

CARLSON: If you can even imagine that.

BEGALA: And you reported that -- you reported that. You later apologized.

DRUDGE: Uh-huh.

BEGALA: You've refused to reveal your source. And it seems to me, and I teach journalism and have for many years, that a reporter does owe a duty of confidentiality of sources until the reporter realizes that the source has been using him to spread defamatory false information. Why don't you tell us who this source is? So other journalists won't rely on him or her?

DRUDGE: Did CNN reveal its sources for the nerve gas story that they got...

BEGALA: I have no idea. I wasn't working here.

DRUDGE: Well, let me finish. Your -- CNN tonight or your representative, CNN, is asking the Internet reporter to reveal sources. And Mr. Begala, I ought to ask you, how did that lawsuit settle, by the way? Did he, Sidney Blumenthal, in fact pay my side to get out of it, a lawsuit he brought? Is that a yes or no?

BEGALA: I'm curious if you think a journalist has the duty to...

DRUDGE: Then tell us. Is it yes or no?

BEGALA: ...to warn other journalists, and to tell the public when he or she receives false and defamatory information?

DRUDGE: I...

BEGALA: You were used as a conduit for someone else's defamation.

DRUDGE: No, no, no. I cannot believe CNN, with all of its errors, with all of its lawsuits would dare challenge a single guy, who's done pretty well on his own, quite frankly, and has broken quite a few stories on a national scale with these fingers and this little peanut brain, why would a corporation the size of AOL/Time Warner dare suggest that I reveal my sources?

BEGALA: Why would you protect someone who has used you and to spread false and defamatory information? I understand protection of sources gives you truthful information. You know, that's important. But I'm curious as to where your journalistic standards lie?

DRUDGE: Well, it's also going back to where you had executive privilege in the White House. Why would in the world would Bill Clinton have used executive privilege over panties, Paul Begala?

BEGALA: You won't tell us why.

DRUDGE: You want to know my source? Why do you want to know my source?

CARLSON: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Paul.

BEGALA: Or your reason for...

DRUDGE: Why do you personally want to know my source?

BEGALA: I personally don't care. I'm curious as to your journalistic standards.

CARLSON: No, look, he's not going to snitch. He's not going to snitch.

DRUDGE: You're the one that's not revealing your sources, Paul Begala. And once you get further into this business, and you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) politics when you had executive privilege...

BEGALA: Even when they lied to you? Even when they use you for defamation?

CARLSON: Now -- I actually I completely agree with you, Matt Drudge. And in fact, I'm a reader of "The Drudge Report." I think it's an excellent digest of interesting stories. But I remember you gave a speech to the National Press Club a couple years ago, where you predicted the end of the old media.

DRUDGE: Mm-hmm.

CARLSON: And in those ensuring years, I've read "The Drudge Report" almost every day. And I've learned a lot of interesting things. A ton about the weather, a lot about cloning, a lot about the four-year-old eaten by the iguana. I've liked every one of those. And I'm not patronizing. I mean, I really have. But it has not replaced "The New York Times" or CNN as a source for other news, for a fuller account of news. And neither has the Internet. So aren't your predictions about the new media taking the place of the old?

DRUDGE: Oh, I don't know. Well, premature, I think you may be premature. How many years are we into the Internet revolution? Probably five since Netscape was launched and it became simple with Windows. You go to the museum across the river here, you -- it took hundreds, maybe a couple 150 years for "The New York Times" and others to really catch up to speed to the prominence they have now.

It doesn't happen overnight. But I still do see a future where individuals do make a difference, reporting what they know, and what they believe to be true as opposed to corporations and gigantic news rooms...

CARLSON: Well, then address that, then. One of the tropes about the Internet is you don't make money from a Web site. But you -- how much do you make every year off "The Drudge Report?"

DRUDGE: Probably more than both you combined at this table.

CARLSON: Well give us a pretty specific number?

DRUDGE: It's nearly seven figures. And it's a great living, because I don't have to share it with anybody. There's no production cost. There's no makeup artist. There's no music and there's no lighting. It's...

BEGALA: The hat's got to set you back a bunch though, right? Did you have a whole closetful of them?

Let me ask you about...

DRUDGE: But it can be lucrative. This whole notion that the Internet's a dud is ridiculous. Otherwise, we all wouldn't have Web sites.

BEGALA: Well, let me ask you though about more traditional media, where you have tried and frankly not done as well. You had a radio show that got canceled. You had Fox television how that I wanted to ask you about. That you and Fox parted company, a very bitter acrimonious way. And in November of '99, you told 'The Washington Post" that the Fox executives were weak-kneed suits, who allowed you free rein to attack Clinton, but then crack down on you when you wanted to show a photo of a 21-year of fetus that had been shown apparently on "Oprah Winfrey" and other shows.

DRUDGE: You're taking -- no, that's not an exact quote.

BEGALA: Pretty close.

DRUDGE: Who's your -- did you prepare the fact sheet?

BEGALA: Sure I did, absolutely.

DRUDGE: My radio show was canceled? On Sunday night, I'm on 200 stations, including...

BEGALA: Well, forgive my...

DRUDGE: ...including WMAL and WABC and KFI in Los Angeles. Paul Begala, you have to do better. If you're hitting the major leagues here.

BEGALA: I'm curious about... DRUDGE: This is not a Clinton White House where you spin lies. This is big time. This is satellite television.

BEGALA: Matt, did you...

DRUDGE: And you're making these up as you go.

BEGALA: Did the Fox people tell you that you could have free reign to attack Clinton and then crack down on you when you wanted to show a photograph of fetus?

DRUDGE: There was no dictation at the Fox News channel, a lot like I don't believe there's dictation here. I hope they're not telling you in your ear right now to get tougher on me or whoever's calling the shots. We're not robots, we're individuals, hopefully.

BEGALA: So did you correct that when "The Post" reported that on November...?

DRUDGE: To try correct Howard Kurtz, that'd be a full-time job.

CARLSON: Now well...

BEGALA: So you're more accurate than Howie Kurtz?

CARLSON: One of the ways you became famous was by attacking other reporters, including Mike Isikoff, of "Newsweek", whose story you essentially took and put it up on the Web site. I'm glad you did, because it was a great story, and great reading. But you have made somewhat of a career of slamming conventional reporters. Who do you like?

DRUDGE: I love Bob Novak. I miss him here tonight, Tucker.

CARLSON: He'll be back.

DRUDGE: It is -- I don't have many heroes in the press. It is a generation or two where I have to go back and look at some of the people that I adored for their moxie, for their -- Hunter Thompson, if he would ever sober up in the hills of Colorado.

CARLSON: But don't you see the difference between someone like Hunter Thompson...

DRUDGE: No.

CARLSON: Hold on. Essentially a reporter and yourself, who's essentially runs a clipping service linking to other people's reporting, which I think is a valuable...

DRUDGE: How, but, Tucker how...

CARLSON: ...thing you do. Don't you think there's a difference between what you do and reporting?

DRUDGE: No, because I'm not a clipping service. And you know damn well I'm not. You come to me to get the first wave on everything, including that "Newsweek" story. I mean, to report...

CARLSON: But they are other people's stories most of the time. That's all I'm saying.

DRUDGE: But hold on. How is it someone else's story to report "Newsweek" is not running a story? That is an original story.

CARLSON: Well, that is. But most of the time, you are the person who finds other people's stories, and gathers them in one place, correct?

DRUDGE: No, recently a big media story that Peter Jennings is going to be asked to take a pay cut here. That's an original. You turn a big media and salaries, that was an original story of mine. I mean, I guess if you expect me to break an exclusive that shakes the world every day, a dirty dress, or a cigar, I mean, maybe I'm not up to that task. But every once in a while, I got to show my hand.

BEGALA: Well, let me show you, actually, what Mr. Isikoff of "Newsweek" magazine, who Tucker referred to, had to say about you and ask you to respond. He described. You can put it up on the screen here. "Drudge is a menace to honest, responsible journalism. And to the extent that he's read and people believe what they read, he's dangerous." Michael Isikoff, "Newsweek." What is your response?

DRUDGE: Well, as he's probably refreshing "The Drudge Report, I've been in his office. And he was fast to show me what his home page was. So...

BEGALA: Which is?

DRUDGE: Well at the time it was me. That was a while ago.

CARLSON: But he still calls you dangerous, why?

DRUDGE: Dangerous, because I don't report to a boss that will spike my story, the way they did to him at "The Washington Post" and "Newsweek". He was spiked twice. We call him Spiky in the vast right wing conspiracy, because he had the stories. And as opposed to being brave and say, I quit and I'm going down Pennsylvania Avenue, and I'm going to tell the world what I know, he says, "No, I'm going to play it safe." And he stays in his -- the safety of the suites.

CARLSON: Well you see him tomorrow night at the dinner you're going to?

DRUDGE: I will.

CARLSON: Have a great time.

DRUDGE: Thank you.

BEGALA: We'll give your regards to brother Novak when he comes back. Matt Drudge, thank you very much for joining us on CROSSFIRE.

DRUDGE: Thank you. BEGALA: Coming up a little bit later, your chance to fire back at us. And then round six, where I take on Carlson over a hissy fit that President Bush threw today over the confirmation of federal judges. Stay with us.