Posted on 05/01/2002 9:09:03 PM PDT by Pokey78
Edited on 04/23/2004 12:04:26 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Sept. 11 might have also brought down a political movement.
The great free-market revolution that began with the coming to power of Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan at the close of the 1970s has finally reached its Thermidor, or point of reversal. Like the French Revolution, it derived its energy from a simple idea of liberty, to wit, that the modern welfare state had grown too large, and that individuals were excessively regulated. The truth of this idea was vindicated by the sudden and unexpected collapse of Communism in 1989, as well as by the performance of the American and British economies in the 1990s.
(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...
But almost all of them are doper-enablers.
I have a friend who has sever back pain due to a traffic accident. She has legitimate perscriptions for vicodin and oxycontin. The doctors have told her that she will probably have to take them for the rest of her life (she's only 27!) She may have to go on disability. However, she prefers to smoke pot for the pain, as it doesn't impair her as much as the (legal) narcotics, it's not addictive, and it's actually cheaper.
In all cases, she only uses it when absolutely needed, and is responsible with the use of the drugs (legal and illegal), i.e. she never drives while under the influence.
I wouldn't call her a doper, although some here probably would.
Mark
But let me be clear on this point...they have the worst answers.
"The WOD is failing" (good point for discussion) => "Let's give up and legalize all drugs!" (stupid answer - lacks any sense of reality)
"Free speech needs to be protected" (all in agreement) => "Let's have unrestricted porn! (stupid answer - ignores harm to non-participants)
"Unprovoked violence is immoral" (good Christian ideal) => "Abortion? Gee, I dunno" (ostrich politics)
"We must respond to WTC attacks Constitutionally" => "Let's send in privateers to take out OBL! That's how the War of 1812 was handled!"
and so on...
Thus Mr. D.E. Squat we have a group of people who parade their fine questions around like a peacock in heat shows his feathers - complete with indexed Thomas Jefferson quotes and NORML statistics to support their question. Then they offer their bonehead "solutions". And if you disagree with the degree of boneheadedness of the "solution", then you are accused of disagreeing with the premise of the initial question. A thinly disguised strawman argument. Then comes the usual insults (statist, Bushbot, socialist, etc) directed towards those who point out that their "solutions" don't work in the real world.
Anyway, that's my view of the basis for the rancor between libertarians and conservatives. And no, Libertarians cannot work towards a common solution because they are intensely uncompromising in their ideas, and actually see that as a virtue.
Can you get anymore "third" grade? You are a sad, sad individual. I genuinely feel bad for you.
Most libertarian's believe that individualism, is all mankind needs to grow and propser.
Libertarians want everyone to live in a social bubble.
Your pretty good at telling people what they believe.
As long as you libertarians can smoke your pot, have your pornography and prostitutes, you're all fat, dumb and happy.
So I like to look at a female ankle every now and then, does that make me a pervert?
Well, most people disagree with your politics and denounce your anti-human proclivities.
Where's your polling data?
LibTars are also very good at making you pubs look at your own party with a healthy dose of skepticism. You may not agree (never agree?) with us but we do keep you informed and alert.
EBUCK
Therefore, John McCain, being a republican, is also a consrvative?
I have no reason to lie. I have the truth on my side. Besides, after reading your vitriolic diatribe, I don't see any logic, or rationale, in your public outbursts. As for attempting to dampen my passions, I think you're wasting your time in that area. But I do have a few comments to make about your political rantings.
It is not possible to be anti-government while at the same time supporting the Constitution.
Sure it is. Libertarians do it all the time. Libertarians, like you, are good at preaching the anti-government and anti-society rhetoric through endless diatribes that only go to show the fallacy of libertariansim. This whitewashing of the facts about the Libertraian Party agenda and what libertarians really stand for, through the use of bold face lies and calculated distortions, doesn't fool anyone. What an effort in futility. No reasonable person believes anything you libertarians say. You should realize that by now and attempt a different tact. It appears with this latest post, you've once again shown, a desire to defend the indefensible, as you personally attack, with outrageous allegations and outlandish assertions. So be it. I'm use to this form of insanity from you libertarians. I'm not surprised in that regard.
I won't comment on all the numerous ad hominem attacks you have aimed my way. Even though your diatribe repeats so many of the worn out libertarian phrases, you've also done something quite unique. You've attempted to align the libertarian philosophy with some strange form of bibical teachings, in what I see as an attempt to create some religious cult. What utterly disgusting and shameless behavior, on your part.
In another example of strange behavior, you use some military service canard, to denounce others, who you see as unfit Americans. Okay, you may have served your country, but so what. Throughout its long history, Americans have served in the military and took an oath to protect and defend this great nation. You aren't the only one. But mandatory military service, isn't a time honored tradition in American history. Unless there is some conflict, requiring increased armed forces, the military should remain, all voluntary. The idea that you want to force American's into military servitude, goes against the principles of our constitutional Republic. This idea that you know, who is a good American and who isn't, because they may have served in the military, is not only utter nonsense, but laughable.
If Libertarians opposing the use of force against personal vices strikes you as anti-religion, one wonders what religion you follow.
It doesn't strike me as anti-religion, it makes me wonder what motivates you libertarains to think personal vices, are simply harmless acts of behavior. Throughout recored history, many different societies have deemed certain vices, illegal. This common belief, by a majority of the people, expresses what is right, from what is wrong.
BTW, whatever religion, I may or may not follow, is none of your business. I hadn't realized the the world chose you as its religious leader, ready to educate us all in the scared aspects of the libertarian philosophy. You sanctimonious jackass.
Communities are as varied as men themselves. I would stand against a community of robbers. I would stand with a community of honest men. Your 'anti-community' accusation is meaningless wordplay.
Meaningless wordplay?! Thats exactly what your statement reveals about yourself. You've shown no desire to be part of the social community of mankind. Your remarks, are nothing but incoherent rhetoric, from a malevolent simpleton.
You have failed to even note any anti-human values above, you have merely asserted them, and each has been shown to you to be patently absurd. Worse, you sound like a Communist, with your whining about human values. It's the same sort of rationalization they use for their libertinistic debauchery.
What nonsenical idiocy. Any rational person can spot anti-human values, a mile away. I can't help it, that when God was passing out commonsense, he chose to by-pass you. Now I undertsand why you have trouble understanding right from wrong. I can't help it if you tilt towards the devaluement of the human race. Talk about debauchery! Libertarians support the legalization of all harmful drugs, from marijuana, to cocaine, to heroin, to designer drugs, to methamphetamine, etc etc etc.... because they believe all Americans have the right to cultivate, purchase and ingest any substance they choose to. That fits right in with the entire libertarian agenda of chaos and anarchy.
What makes human beings so unique and special among all of Gods creatures, is not just our abilities to think and create, but also our ability to adapt to change. It's what has defined mankind through the millennia.
Sheer stupidity.
Says who? You? You don't have the credentials to judge anyones remarks. The abilities that humans have to think, create and adapt to change, is something that God gave to mankind alone. He didn't give it to the other creatures on Earth. These lesser creatures don't have the physical capacity of intellignce, to dominate the world. Neither do libertarians, for that matter.
Now this is important, so pay attention. Knowing right from wrong, is something you either learn at a young age, or you don't. Its that simple. It takes strong parental influence and patience, for young children to understand the ways of the world and to learn respect for other people. These are positive attributes that most folks know about, but take for granted, far too often. They're what we learn from our travels through life, from birth to death. Human beings aren't just born, ready to face the world. Human children must be properly nurtured by parents who have their childrens best interests in mind. It would seem, you were raised without proper adult supervision. Without the ability to think, as in, forming conscious thought, it is extremely difficult to get on in the real world.
Here you are, full of righteous indignation, prepared to strike at your neighbor not for causing you harm, but simply because you are offended by his actions.
There you go again, putting words in my mouth. Truth is, you wreak of self righteous indignation. Your words and remarks have proven that, beyond a shadow of doubt. You want a world where there are no boundaries, no regulations and no authority imposed by civilized society. You libertaians want mankind to revert back to earlier times, when we lived and prospered through survival of the fittest. The strong survive and the weak die off. Come on, you libertarians could care less about your fellow human beings. As long as you have unfettered access to a lifestyle that supports your own selfish habits and desires, everyone else can go to hell!
Most libertarian's believe that individualism, is all mankind needs to grow and propser.
Rather, libertarians believe liberty is a necessary but not sufficient ingredient for prosperity and growth. Men cannot grow morally if they are compelled to morality. As has often been noted, character is what one does when no one is looking.
Libertarians are obsessed with absolute rights as they pertain to the individual. Morality and ethics aren't in the libertarian lexicon. Just the opposite is true. Libertarians have gone in the wrong direction. They have brought nothing to the advancement of mankind. Libertarians have a long way to travel, if they ever expect to be taken seriously by rational and reasonable people. And don't forget, people have been legislating morality, since the beginning of civilization itself.
In my book, your refusal to appreciate the rights of others to live contrary to your own personal view is evil. I am tempted to call you and those who agree with you subhuman, to suggest that perhaps you lack the capacity to make such moral distinctions, but that would be far too lenient. All men are born with conscience; it is the spark of God within us.
I appreciate and respect the rights of others. I just don't believe you or anyone else has a right to do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want, with a total disregard for the rights of others. Thats not freedom, thats called chaos. Your value and belief system is alien to most people. It is evil and sub-human, to support abortion on demand. It is evil and sub-human, to support legalizing harmful drugs. It is evil and sub-human, to support legalizing prostitution. It is evil and sub-human, to promote pornography. It is evil and sub-human, to leave your country incapable of defending the people's homeland. It is evil and sub-human, to support dismantling the finest legal system in world history. The world isn't a personal playground for you libertarians. Libertarians condemn an orderly and law abiding society, then they wonder why, no one takes them seriously. All men are born with the ability to learn right from wrong, but not all men are born with a conscience. Libertarians are the best example of creatures who are void of a moral conscience and of ethical standards.
You libertarians are obviously not happy here in 21st century America. In fact, your far from satisified about anything and are generally opposed with the contemporary times you live in. You're so unhappy, you throw temper tandrums, whenever anyone questions your selfish, self centered and convoluted outlook of the world. You libertarians really need to leave America and start your own country. Then you can have everything you want. No government, no society, no community, no religion, no nothing. You can all live in a world of anarchy. But the chance that you might ever learn something from such an experience, is a farfetched possibility. You libertarians will never learn anything about human nature and the ways of the real world. The only fallen souls I know of, belong to those mindless creatures, known as libertarians.
Man is a social creature. Libertarians want everyone to live in a social bubble. As long as you libertarians can smoke your pot, have your pornography and prostitutes, you're all fat, dumb and happy.
If God had intended man to function as a collective, without individals making their own decisions on morality, he could have easily created men to be such. He chose not to do so. Care to explain the mind of God for us, Reagan Man? Surely, you, or some of your compatriots, are wise enough to explain his reasons. I, however, do not deign to know his intent.
You're one ignorant individual. I don't speak for God, but its pretty clear what his intentions are. There is no doubt, that God made each man and woman, as an individual entity. But he also created man and woman, to grow and prosper together, in what we conservatives call, a family unit. In that manner, mankind has flourished, through the act of procreation. In order for these billions of humans to properly function and evolve, God wanted there be an orderly society. There is no other way to explain it. God judges us on our individual actions and a big part of that, is how we interact and get along, with our fellow humans. You libertarians, seem to have an abundance of problems and troubles with your fellow members of the human race. Face it. Man is a social creature, and all the libertarian pontificating will not change that simple fact.
"What is your definition of justice?"
"Justice, Elijah, is that which exists when all the laws are enforced."
Fastolfe nodded. "A good definition, Mr. Baley, for a robot.... A human being can recognize the fact that, on the basis of an abstract moral code, some laws may be bad ones and their enforcement unjust. What do you say, R. Daneel?"
"An unjust law," said R. Daneel evenly, "is a contradiction in terms."
-- Isaac Asimov (The Caves Of Steel)
Your post #84 says everything necessary.
The shameless puke corps has been out in force on this thread, I notice.
Such a display of sophistry, outright lying, and general bamboozlement I haven't seen since perusing some marxist muck last week.
The Kheperas, ReaganMans, kevin currys, roscoes, larrylied, edsheppa, lancy howard, nopardons, r9etb, don meyers, etc. of this world are sad and pathetic little beasts.
They are not worth the powder to blow them home to Hell.
================================
Needs repeating. - Second the motion on where to send them.
I don't agree with the Republican Party, 100% of the time, but its much closer to my conservative values and beliefs then the Libertarian Party will ever be. Fact is, as a political party, the Libertarian Party has been pronounced dead. Each general election season we hear what a difference the Libertarian Party is going to make, this time around and when we see the Libertarian Party finally show, it's DOA! It will be the same in 2004, 2008 and so on.
Where's your polling data? Polling data provided each election.
Excellent rebuttal Khepera and so true.
I read your entire screed...twice. I feel like a hungry dog in a butcher shop, but I choose to center my response on this one fragment of your thesis.
I think I know you like a neighbour, the kind of neighbour who forces his children to 'respect' priests, school-teachers, and anyone else who has the generalized approval of society to do what they do.
So if your kid comes home from school with tales of injustice, abuse, and violence, you will hush them up, as speaking out of turn about matters they know little of.
I know your kind thoroughly! You whited sepulchres care more about how your 'community' perceives you than you do about any moral, social, or intellectual issue. You conforming ciphers evidently lack the capacity for independent thought. You will cheerfully agree with the most odious measures, providing that the 'right sort' of people favor them.
I suspect you are of the generation that has sucked off the public teat of America for your entire life, and think it your right.
I suspect you are of the generation that slavishly follows every popular delusion, no matter how witless, for after all, the 'people' must be correct in their judgments, right?
Just as youth is said to be wasted on the young, I can say that the idea of America seems to be wasted on many Americans.
You complacent white shoe country-club Republicans are as much an enemy of America as the shiftless clamoring slackjawed deadbeats who support the Democrats.
It's a miracle of charity that the youth of America merely laughs at your fooleries; you deserve worse than laughter.
What revealing non-sequiturs! I love this site.
"Conservatives" project Daddy onto "government", and "liberals" see it as Mommy.
(I myself see it as a mildly alcoholic, unemployed bachelor uncle.)
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