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What is a Neo-Conservative?

Posted on 04/26/2002 12:36:50 PM PDT by ForOurFuture

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Comment #81 Removed by Moderator

To: Okiegolddust
On this mortal coil, as opposed to the hereafter, passports to where? Please be specific. Thanks.
82 posted on 04/26/2002 8:17:01 PM PDT by Torie
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Comment #83 Removed by Moderator

To: shadowman99
Those are usually "seminar" callers.
84 posted on 04/26/2002 8:21:03 PM PDT by MoJo2001
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To: Torie
WOW! Should I begin calling you Beetlejuice?
85 posted on 04/26/2002 8:27:48 PM PDT by jwalsh07
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To: ForOurFuture
Neo-conservatism has changed over the years.

The short founding phase was dominated by Irving Kristol's "The Public Interest," a magazine that examined policy questions and dissected liberal assumptions of the 1960s and 1970s. Kristol's collaborators included a liberal like Daniel Patrick Moynihan and a social democrat like Daniel Bell, but it's important to recognize that it wasn't a fully fledged political movement or ideology. It was a policy critique of the Great Society that could be applied by those of a variety of political stripes. There was much to be admired in such a critique of defective policy assumptions and practices.

Phase two focused on Norman Podhoretz and "Commentary," a magazine devoted to Jewish issues, foreign and domestic policy. The elder Podhoretz and his wife had been around earlier, but they weren't quite so prestigious as the elder Kristols. It was the turn to practical politics that benefited Podhoretz.

These were the years of the renascent Cold War and the Reagan administration. In these years the neo-cons were the intellectual vanguard of the administration and their influence spread throughout conservative journals and organizations. The Cold War was the key in these years, though the original critique of domestic policy and the effort to develop new approaches to domestic policy continued.

With the end of the Cold War and the passing of Reagan and Bush Sr., as well as Kristol and Podhoretz, from active life began phase three which is most closely identified with William Kristol, Irving's son, and "The Weekly Standard." The neo-conservatism of phase three is far less intellectual and far more political, focusing more narrowly on Washington, rather than New York or Cambridge. Intellectually, Bill is no match for his parents, but more of a practical politicians. Involvement with McCain hurt Kristol and his associates, but wartime brings them bounding back.

Neo-conservatism III no longer carries the same weight among Republicans or conservative organizations, though it seems to have as great an influence on conservative publications as before. Masters at using words and publicity, the neo-cons always plumped for a larger role for themselves and undercut those partners who didn't have political clout that they could make use of.

A lot of what one could accept in the Cold War, became harder to take in peacetime. To many of us in 1980 Old Poddy sounded like a patriot struggling against the destructive ideas of the time. By 2000, he looked much more like an egotist forever tooting his own horn and promoting his pet causes. John "Young Poddy" Podhoretz, Norman's son, starts at that point and devolves further.

Raimondo and the Rockwellites are right in a lot of what they write about the neo-cons, but the neo-cons would also be right in their condemnation of Raimondo and the Rockwellites, if they deigned to notice them. These political sects generally do accumulate vices over time. It's a result of inbreeding, opportunism and groupthink.

It seems to me that the neo-cons performed many useful services in the seventies and eighties which either aren't so necessary now, or aren't being performed by them. What sticks in the craw are the nepotism, the opportunism, and the attacks they make on fellow conservatives.

Whatever happens in the future, I doubt the neo-cons will be a major influence in ten years. Intent on manipulating public opinion and political developments, present-day neo-cons don't seem to have the shrewdness at discerning deeper, broader and more lasting trends that their parents and predecessors did.

86 posted on 04/26/2002 9:45:13 PM PDT by x
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To: ForOurFuture
Neo-Cons are generally defined by support of free trade and an activist foreign policy that keeps their stocks growing even when the companies whose stocks they own try to shift production to inherently instable, third-world nations. American might spares them the natural risk of investing in these places, and they believe that the continued growth of their portfolios represents the growth of conservative values. They also see activist foreign policy as a way to give themselves significance and get "face time" on TV. They are nominally pro-life, and in many cases are sincerely pro-life. They are nominally pro-gun, and sometimes sincerely pro-gun. On both of these issues, they avoid confrontation with political opponents. In some cases, they may be motivated by sincere belief that conflict doesn't help their cause, but in other cases, they are unwilling to fight the battle because they don't really care. They are typically in favor of lower taxes and nominally in favor of less government regulation. Bill Kristol is the poster boy of Neo-Cons, but Newt Gingrich has also been considered something of a Neo-Con.

Paleo-Conservatives are more small-government conservatives with a strong slant towards traditional values. They will support foreign policy activism when America's vital national interests are at stake, but they do not support involvment in most conflicts. They are more passionately pro-life and pro-gun. They believe in lower taxes and less government, but they have less patience for rich people whining about taxes. They tend to oppose free trade or at least see it as a sometimes useful policy as opposed to a guiding principle. Paleo-Cons like the idea of tariffs because they like confining the tax man's power to the end of a dock and because they see strong manufacturing as a component of a strong America. The most prominent Paleo-Conservative is Pat Buchanan, but I think most Paleo-Cons support Israel a little more than Mr. Buchanan does.

WFTR
Bill

87 posted on 04/26/2002 9:52:48 PM PDT by WFTR
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To: x
A thoughtful post, but I dissent. We neo-cons have much more useful work to do, and will keep on doing it, here and elsewhere. We are not dried up, juiceless media irrelevancies. The ideology has resilience, because it is not constrained by constraining ideologies about what the government should do, and shouldn't, but is rather animated by the objective evidence of where government has something to offer, and where it doesn't. And it will continue to resist unsubstantiated prejudice and myths of all kinds, whereever they may rear their ugly head. We will be around, and will be influential, for the forseeable future. At least I will (well perhaps sans the influence bit, but who knows?). Regards.
88 posted on 04/26/2002 9:55:08 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
The ideology has resilience, because it is not constrained by constraining ideologies about what the government should do, and shouldn't, but is rather animated by the objective evidence of where government has something to offer, and where it doesn't.

So it was with FDR, who saw government as Savior, and was unconstrained by any ideology or sense that the government need adhere to the idea of "consent of the governed" that requires a constitutional amendment to expand the power of the federal government over the states and the individual.

89 posted on 04/27/2002 7:09:44 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: SteamshipTime
Apparently, it wasn't that simple...

Thanks for the history lesson.

Eddie01

90 posted on 04/27/2002 7:12:33 AM PDT by The Real Eddie01
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To: Torie
The ideology has resilience, because it is not constrained by constraining ideologies about what the government should do, and shouldn't, but is rather animated by the objective evidence of where government has something to offer, and where it doesn't.

Which is why neoconservatism is inherently at odds with the Founders' ideals, and therefore the Constitution.

91 posted on 04/27/2002 9:13:51 AM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Torie
Best of luck to you. But it seems to me that the neo-cons don't seem to be generating much in the way of policy ideas lately. It was one thing to take apart liberal policies and show why they didn't work. It's something else to come up with alternatives. That may be one reason why there's such a bitter division here between the neo-cons and those who want the federal government out of everything: if the neo-cons had policies on the table that were workable and understandable, they would win more people over to their side.

In contrast to his father, William Kristol seems more concerned with foreign policy, with the specific political battles of the day, and with jockeying for position within the Republican party and conservative movement and less with the "bigger picture." That picture does come out in the war against Islamism or Islam and in the celebration of "bourgeois values." The question is whether bourgeois values are enough. If they were sufficiently threatened they might well be, but when they aren't, do they have the power to inspire?

Is neo-conservatism "dried-up?" I don't know, but it doesn't seem to arouse the same passion. Feeling oneself embattled and fighting in the last ditch enflamed those passions in previous decades. Sitting on top of the world and thinking about how to run it rouses much less passion. I suppose that's the criticism of pragmatic ideologies, not bound to convictions and dogmas. They can become too complacent and administrative, rather than prophetic or transformative.

92 posted on 04/27/2002 9:19:29 AM PDT by x
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To: x
Provided the centrist conservative movement hews to a free market, free trade internationist perspective with a robust view of the use of American power, much of the work of Neocons is done at this point. But it has one great mission yet remaining, and that is the reform of our secondary educational establishment. The neocons have something to offer because they are focused on educational performance, and educational performance of less advantaged kids in particular. They are not distracted by issues of subsidiarity, what books are in the library, etc. When that mission is accomplished, perhaps the movement will largely disappear into establishment conservatism.
93 posted on 04/27/2002 9:37:44 AM PDT by Torie
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To: Reagan Man, RightOnline, Willie Green, freeeee
"Neo-con" is not exactly a term of endearment. It is generally used to refer to someone who claims to adhere to Conservative ideaology yet moves leftward on various (usually social and/or foreign policy) issues.

neocons = portfolio patriots

conservative values are jetisoned to improve the bottom line.

A neo-con advocates big and ever growing government to implement their socially conservative political agenda.

Traditional conservatives advocate limited government. This is almost never the case with the neo-con. A neo-con just loves BIG government, so long as it is doing his bidding.


Reagan Man, here are three excellent definitions of neoconservatism to educate your thick skull on the meaning of the term according to its usage today. You, no doubt, in your pre-evolutionary mental state will go back to your religious devotion to a dictionary, no less, and defense of President Bush's neoconservative policies and indefensible appeasements of the left with his signature of the campaign finance bill, support for amnesty of 2 million illegal aliens and, acceleration of Clinton's appeasement policy for the Butchers of Beijing and destruction of 75% of our strategic nuclear deterrent. I guess RINOs like you never get it, do they?
94 posted on 04/28/2002 7:40:37 AM PDT by rightwing2
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To: x
As usual, you have supplied one of the most insightful and sterling overviews on the thread. While it is obvious much thought goes into your compositions, you make them look like an effortless response to old freinds. Most of us wish we could contribute half as on-target and concisely as you.

I think that the Weekly Standard crowd will continue to have media attention beyond their numbers, both due to their ability to promote their view and a media predisposition of comfort in commenting on their world view.

95 posted on 04/29/2002 8:44:03 AM PDT by KC Burke
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To: x
In re: Paleo vs. Neo

Paleo (or true, orthodox) conservatives were never a large group. All of them could probably fit on the poop deck of Bill Buckley's 'Cyrano,' for cocktails, while they lamented the state of the world and listened to Valenti play the harpsichord.

Since many were rich, had been out of, and away from elective political power for so long, and used to disappointment, they had taken the necessary steps to protect themselves financially and in many ways, forgot about politics, except as a conversational topic. They would rather be right, than rule.

When power came, with the election of Ronald Reagan, some of these guys were taken completely aback. They never got the hang of actually doing anything with their power. Then along comes the popular (OMIGOD) conservative movement, with Rush Limbaugh and the like leading the charge! Then these NEO-CON things, many of whom had actually been Democrats!
Naturally, these people are suspicious of the motives of these upstarts. I mean where were the Kristols and Podhoretzes when Roosevelt was attacking their caste!?

96 posted on 05/03/2002 7:16:08 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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