Summary of Great French Surrenders

Undergraduate Historian ^ | R.McChristian

[punishingone]

Great French surrenders throughout History.

[ncson]

What clamper said. We just let the Vietnamese people have what they evidently wanted - Communist tyranny.

[powderhorn]

Had it not been for the French, there would be no USA.

Probably true. The French bankrolled much of the American Revolution...which pretty much bankrupted them. When the war was over, instead of opening up our lands for French developers we shut the Frenchies out and made our primary trade deals with the Brits (who, of course, would be less demanding, considering the circumstances). Due to the really bad economic situation in France (thanks to America) the Frenchies beheaded a great many of their leaders. French would-be aristocrates still take umbrage with Americans for taking english as our primary language instead of french.

Things have gone down hill for France ever since the American Revolution. Their last great achievement was the invention of french toast.

[Walkin Man]

However, Vietnam was just a battle in the greater war against communist domination. This battle contributed to weakening the greater enemy, who was ultimately defeated. I contend that we won the battles of Vietnam and we won the war against communism.

I agree 100% with this view. The Vietnam war helped bleed and weaken the USSR and Red China. Communism fell in Russia but unfortunately still clings to power in Red China thanks to capitalists for the most part. Gee, what would Marx think about that? Vietnam vet should be given credit for the defeat of communism, world-wide.

[68 grunt]

Vietnam vets should be given credit for the defeat of communism, world-wide.

What a nice thing to say. Thank you, Walkin' Man. Many of us like to feel we contributed.

[mushroom]

I'm saying a war is when you do everything possible to kill the other side until they see things your way. The US military fought the Viet Nam "police action" with one hand and three fingers tied behind their backs, politicians looking over their shoulders, and strategies designed to win over public opinion. Makes me wonder if there wasn't a Clinton somewhere running the whole damn mess.

The objective of war is the death of the enemy not winning the hearts and minds of your supposed allies.

Besides, we could have won that conflict with the flick of two switches. That we chose not to do so proves that this wasn't a war just a sorry piece of shit shootout that we never intended to fully fight from day one.

[r9etb]

The rest of us see that Vietnam fell into the enemy hands -- a defeat for us.

Actually, no. It was defeat for the South Vietnamese army.

Which (dragging us back on-topic) was originally created by the French, who surrendered the area to the natives back in 1954....

[weikel]

Thats what my father says and he was just a doctor.

[Cicero]

Well, I won't enter the main argument about Vietnam, but to be fair to the South Vietnamese, they were doing reasonably well until JFK ordered the assassination of their leader, Diem. That was a major turning-point for the worse and was what chiefly led to our own direct involvement in the war as participants rather than advisers. Maybe South Vietnam couldn't have withstood the North Vietnamese onslaught anyway, but we'll never know for sure.

[bfree]

what's with all the French apologists? Name one battle they won in the 20th century.

[Angelique]

What's the matter? You cannot pick on the Muslims? Or what about blacks or Irish or lots of other folks. You are a coward. This Country would may have not been standing if it were not for the French. Maybe you ought to look at your founding fathers.

[Angelique]

This is the epitomy if an Ugly American. Read the history of your country, Mr. Big Mac.

[Angelique]

Obviously you have no clue about history. Who saved us?

[Eugene Tackleberry]

fyi

[Angelique]

I know they like chesse

After you learn how to spell, you might take lessons in cuisine besides your pasturized Kraft singles garbage.

[Hemingway's Ghost]

but to be fair to the South Vietnamese, they were doing reasonably well until JFK ordered the assassination of their leader, Diem. That was a major turning-point for the worse and was what chiefly led to our own direct involvement in the war as participants rather than advisers. Maybe South Vietnam couldn't have withstood the North Vietnamese onslaught anyway, but we'll never know for sure.

The ARVN was doing well before '63? The ARVN could've withstood an NVA onslaught? Exactly what color is the sky in your world?

[Angelique]

You are so correct. Napoleon did suffer egomaniacal behavior, but what about Clinton, and McCain?

What many do not know is that Napoleon was the first to write the civil code of procedure.

[tracer]

"History did not begin in 1940."

No, but it ended for France in 1940....

[Walkin Man]

You are welcome sir and thank you for your service to not only your country but to the entire world for helping to rid it of the horror of world-wide communist revolution.

Now we just have to worry about world-wide Muslim fascisism. Grrr...

I hope someday you boys will be given full credit for what you have done.