Summary of Great French Surrenders

Undergraduate Historian ^ | R.McChristian

[punishingone]

Great French surrenders throughout History.

[BlueLancer]

"It was the French Fleet under Compte de Grasse who stood down the Royal Navy which was trying to resupply Cornwallis at Yorktown, allowing Washington to win."

"Stood down"? Stood in its way, more realistically, and allowed the British Admiral to lose the battle by strictly obeying the Fleet Fighting Instructions directing a line of battle engagement instead of a melee attack in the manner that Nelson would have handled it.

What the French were is not what the French are now .. virulently anti-American, unwashed, and deserving of the sobriquet of "cheese-eating surrender monkeys".

[jude24]

in the recent simpsons episode where Lisa portrays Joan of Arc, she and her family have the following conversation:

HOMER: You said the Lord told you to lead the French army to WHAT???
LISA: Victory
HOMER: We're french! we don't even have a word for that!

then there's the episode where Homer goes to work for a James Bond-style villian as he's preparing his superweapon of destruction.

HANK SCORPIO: By the way, Homer, which is your least favorite country? Italy, or France?
HOMER: Umm... France.
SCORPIO: Heh heh heh. No one ever says Italy.

[KC Burke]

The French, mindful of their historical place in the history of European affairs took thier own path subsiequently to the Berlin Blockade. Wishing to make their way to being taken as a major player in the Nuclear Age, they undermined the efforts of the US in the cold war to an extent that made our alliance in the NATO pact a difficult one at times.

We need to remember that France was the true birthplace of "the left" and its history, while tied with ours in many ways in the American Revolution and in WWI, is filled with a completly different heritage of liberty.

[68 grunt]

My first response would have been deleted. Glad I backed out, and waited a moment before trying again.

The process was called 'peace with honor' and 'vietnamization', gradually removing our troops while allowing the Vietnamese to determine their own future. It was the Vietnamese who did not have the cojones, the will and dedication to win, who lost.

However, Vietnam was just a battle in the greater war against communsist domination. This battle contributed to weakening the greater enemy, who was ultimately defeated. I contend that we won the battles of Vietnam and we won the war against communism.

[LisaFab]

I prefer to think of Viet Nam as well as Korea as battles we lost in the Cold War which ultimately was a victory.

[jlogajan]

I think we did win the wider struggle against Soviet communism. If you want to call Vietnam a battle in that struggle, I have no problem with that. We did lose that particular battle.

But it is also correct to call it its own war, and we did lose that too.

[jimbo123]

Q. How many Frenchman does it take to defend their country?

A. No one knows. They've never done it before.

[Calvin Coolidge]

We did not achieve our original military objectives in Vietnam. As it became clear that these original objectives were unattainable; we defined a series of progressively less ambitious objectives. This does not mean that withdraw of all our forces while the country was overrun by the NVA constitutes a victory.

In a sense, we lost the war but won the campaign. In the same manner, the British lost the war of American Independence, but ultimately prevailed in the global power struggle versus France and Spain.

I don't mean to denigrate the valour of our armed forces serving in Vietnam in any way. My father served three tours; in 66, 69, and 72; as an Air Force pilot. I would never doubt his courage, just as I would never doubt the courage of the French who died at Borodino or the Germans at Kursk. Still, they lost.

[powderhorn]

Do they have a lot of French in Wisconsin? I know they like chesse and are very liberal. Sounds like Frenchmen. Nuke'em!

Yes, there are a lot of French in Wisconsin, but they tend to get beat up a lot by the Irish.

[BlueLancer]

"The French are civilized, sophisticated people. I spent many happy layovers there."

You'd have a hard time establishing the former and, as to the latter, better you than I.

[Calvin Coolidge]

Tell that to the four million Frenchmen who died defending their country in 1914-1918. Or the hundreds of thousands who died defending their country in 1814. Or the peasants and artillerymen who held off the Prussians in 1793. History did not begin in 1940.

[68 grunt]

ESADMF

[mushroom]

You can't lose a war you never got a chance to fight. Anyway, Viet Nam was never a war it was a "police action" even though I get to join the VFW because of it.

[jlogajan]

You're saying you can't count it as a loss if it is because the leaders screwed up. Huh?

[clamper1797]

However, Vietnam was just a battle in the greater war against communsist domination. This battle contributed to weakening the greater enemy, who was ultimately defeated. I contend that we won the battles of Vietnam and we won the war against communism.

AMEN

BTW .... Welcome home brother

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

You mean like this?

[BlueLancer]

Sorry, but Graves positioned his ships according to the Fighting Instructions, intent on engaging DeGrasse in a standard line of battle engagement. Due to the winds and the slow formation of the French line of battle, the engagement was never accomplished and Graves sailed away, leaving Cornwallis to his fate.

Had Graves engaged the French fleet in a squadron or melee attack as they straggled out of the Chesapeake Bay, past the Capes, it would have been a massacre and the French Fleet would have been bottled up inside the Bay.

Sorry, but I disagree with your assessment that the French fleet "won" anything. The British Admiral, through lack of energy and initiative, forfeited his advantages and abandoned the field.