St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[kattracks]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

In a 15-minute homily from the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the city, Msgr. Eugene Clark labeled the United States "probably the most immoral country" in the Western hemisphere. He also called homosexuality "a disorder" and said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests.

Clark, 76, a longtime key player and conservative voice in the Archdiocese of New York, delivered his stinging homily as Egan and other U.S. cardinals left for Rome to meet with the Pope about priestly pedophilia.

After preaching about forgiveness, Clark detailed reasons he believes some priests victimized children. He appeared to place most of the blame on homosexuality, saying the theory that people are born gay "is not true."

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin," he said. "But the practice of homosexuality is truly sinful."

Some parishioners in the packed pews shifted uneasily, others nodded in agreement and a few walked out. But Clark continued, arguing that it was a "grave mistake" to allow gays in the priesthood. He blamed American society for being "very protective" of homosexuality.

"Homosexuality became in the American exchange of views a protected area," he said. "And unfortunately ... homosexual students were allowed to pass through seminaries. Grave mistake. Not because homosexuals in anyway tend to criminality, but because it is a disorder."

'The Most Immoral Country'

Clark also criticized what he called "the campaign of liberal America against celibacy."

He theorized that priests who have a tendency toward sexually abusing children — a group he pegged at 3% of the nation's clergy — were affected by a barrage of sinful images in society.

"Liberated sex is offered to people all day long, all evening long," he said. "There is nothing quite like it."

"We know — we won't mention it outside the cathedral — we are probably the most immoral country certainly in the Western hemisphere and maybe the larger circle because of the entertainment we suffer and what it's done to our [country's] morals ...," Clark said.

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27. "I thought, wouldn't it be great if the entire church walked out?"

But few did. Most parishioners stayed, and many applauded Clark after his sermon.

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

"This is a poor attempt to deflect attention away from the church's culpability for the sexual abuse of minors by priests and its attempt to cover it up for decades," she added.

But Catholic League President William Donohue praised Clark. "He makes a great deal of sense and to have this said so articulately by one of the brighter priests in the New York area is very encouraging," Donohue said.

"The internal problem in the church is a lack of governance and due to diligence," he added. "But there is no question about it — this is a societywide problem that goes way beyond the Catholic Church."

With Gretchen E. Weber

[Almondjoy]

I respect your opinion but at the same time I think you ought to consider what your demands represent... what if Islam was the major religion here.. what if paganism was? Would you want murder to be acceptable if Pagan's ran the gov't.. anchary in it's true form? You have to realize that when you push certain moral and ethical boundries onto people that you have view the situation from their eyes. "If I don't believe in God.. in the *** that I was dating stupid condom broke.. if i'm broke.. if I'm better off taking care of my existing kids.. who are you to tell me what is amoral?" You may not like that arguement very much but that's the way life is. People are given a choice by God whether to believe in him or not... If they choose not it is not our place as Christians to force our beliefs into them.

[BlessedBeGod]

morality cannot be forced on to others

It already is. They're called laws.;-)

[ventana]

Yeah, and here I thought Joe Zwilling was a cool guy. I guess it's all about the paycheck. He has to go.

Domestic, yes, this is an infilitration of Gramscian proportion. Here is a little more information on the Growing In Love Catechism book series available for ages k-8 and distributed all throughout Diocese in our country:

"The book is authored by a writer who particularly stands out as a priest, for his extremely pro-homosexual views, as well as his dissent from church teachings. He is also unabashedly vulgar about sexuality and crudely discusses genitalia in street parlance and laments sex-ed materials that have been sanitized by "taking out the body parts." When speaking before religious educator audiences and seminarians.

His name is Reverend Richard Sparks, and he has achieved notoriety for his public dissent from the Holy Father on important Catholic doctrines such as Human Vitae, and also for his activist efforts on the part of the homosexual community muscling its way into the church. He helped promote the "GLBT: (gay, lesbian, bisexual, training) staff training in 9 of 11 Catholic schools in the Minneapolis diocese. 1.

His views can best be described as permissive: "In various addresses given at the Conference, and reported in the press, Sparks stated that he opposed burdening teenagers with principles of sexual morality, because this would cause internal conflicts, leading to a 'dysfunctional' way of life and an unhealthy image of God as a 'strict judge or moody tyrant.' He also stated that people should "never malign the sincerity of pro-choice or pro-euthanasia people" because these are "complex issues.""2.

Sparks promotes the pro-homosexual agenda in the book both overtly and subvertly: on Page Nine the radical homosexual activist ministry is referred to: Always our Children. Take a look at the vital statistics of some of its founders: Fr. Nugent is the U.S. Church’s most well-known homosexual propagandist. Because of his advocacy of embracing the "gay lifestyle" and his aggressive dissent from Church teaching, he was stripped of his faculties to preach and hear confessions in the Archdiocese of Washington. In 1979 the Vatican initiated an investigation into his homosexual advocacy. The investigation resulted in Cardinal James Hickey’s letter to all American bishops stating that the organization he founded, New Ways Ministry, is "ambiguous" on the morality of homosexual acts. Fr. Nugent is also barred from speaking on Church property by Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston, (too racy even for Law, my my).

Fr. Shexnayder is president of the National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries. He owns a private home in Oakland with the former chairman of Dignity San Francisco, a gay-rights group which agitates for Church acceptance of homosexual relationships, sometimes even resorting to sacrilegious pranks. In June, 1994, following the Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered Parade in San Francisco, Fr. Shexnayder celebrated a Mass for the Catholic participants in the event, giving Communion to all. In his homily that day he stated: "We must not let our homophobic society confine our homosexuality to the bedroom… Our homosexuality must burst forth from the bedroom and leaven all of society."

Fr. Liuzzi , who calls himself "the gay priest," serves as the head of Gay and Lesbian Ministries for the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. At a 1997 pro-homosexual conference in Los Angeles, Fr. Liuzzi called for a "new and different gay revolution." He stressed his belief that homosexuality is morally neutral and that gays have a right to participate in the Church community without having to hide their homosexuality. At that gathering Fr. Liuzzi pretended to bless those in attendance with puppy urine. 3. http://www.aquinas-multimedia.com/catherine/aoc.html

Statement on Notification by Most Reverend Joseph A. Fiorenza Bishop of Galveston-Houston President, National Conference of Catholic Bishops

"The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has notified Sister Jeannine Gramick, SSND, and the Reverend Robert Nugent, SDS, that they are "permanently prohibited from any pastoral work involving homosexual persons." This decision was reached after nearly twelve years of dialogue with Sister Gramick and Father Nugent. This dialogue began with a commission, appointed in 1988 and chaired by Cardinal Adam Maida, to examine criticism that, in their ministry to homosexual persons, they did not fully and accurately present the teaching of the Church on homosexuality " " .4 http://www.nccbuscc.org/comm/archives/99-171a.htm

This is from a two part research I compiled for distribution to Catholic school parents. The other document traces the growth in power and influence of the militant Gays in America, particularly in our schools. I titled it "We are here and Queer" After their 1993 march on Washington where they chanted: " We Are Here and Queer and We Are Coming for Your Children."

They have arrived. V's wife.

[Almondjoy]

I disagree. An activisty bench would have actually kept abortion illegal. They would have kept it illegal based on them actively pursuing the policy that this nation was founded on God's principles.. they would have actively tried to keep that together. This was a result of inaction.. of the melting pot.. of the coming together of various cultures and beliefs that allow people to believe in whatever God and religion they choose.

[eastsider]

The tendency is a disorder, the actual act itself is a sin. The Msgr. is separating the sin from the sinner.

The "tendency" to any sin without a bending of the will toward that sin is nothing more temptation. While I wholeheartedly concur that sexually active priests of any persuasion should be defrocked, I personally believe the Monsignor went too far by suggesting that mere temptation to a particular sin (i.e. homosexual acts) is an absolute impediment to Holy Orders.

[SkyPilot]

V's wife,

You sound very, very courageous.

You are right. Fight back.

BUT BE WARNED. The other side already is launching their attack:

Homosexuals Plan to Counter Attack

[Almondjoy]

Again you are inferring opinion and your beliefs into law. Show me the scientific evidence that a fetus of one month.. of two months.. of three months.. has any resembelance of human brain activity that would represent comphrension and life? You show me that proof and I'll call it murder.. until then you merely inferring that because God gives us a soul that we are a lifeform at the moment of conception.

[Almondjoy]

I think you are missing some key points on that. First off men generally have no binding association to a baby.. back in the 60's and 70's there certainly wasn't any DNA evidence to keep people bound.. even often times child support is a joke that is half enforced. Abortion may be a quick fix for some men but I think that more men may be inclined to think of abortion as acceptable because most men(liberal or not) would often say "it's not my body it's not my choice" so they in fact defer to women to make the choice whether it should be legal or not.

[uncbob]

Would you want murder to be acceptable if Pagan's ran the gov't.. anchary in it's true form?

Well you just admitted murder is unacceptable because of religion

[Almondjoy]

What lies and deception are you reffering to?

[uncbob]

until then you merely inferring that because God gives us a soul that we are a lifeform at the moment of conception.

Well if it ain't a lifeform than I guess it is a rock or some other inanimate object.

[frogandtoad]

I was there! I am local parishioner (only 300 of us, the rests are tourists) at St. Pat's. It was fabulous. I was sitting in the 2nd pew, center, which they usual hold for the local parishioners, with some friends. We all loved it. One of the best sermons I have ever heard. We applauded him after the sermon. After Mass, some of us went back to congratulate him. I hope Crises, or some other conservative publication publishes it. No doubt the liberals, and the liberal media will be up in arms. But we should all support Msgr. Clark. He's the best. He's everything thats good in the Catholic Church.

[ventana]

I don't know about courageous. Pissed off, for sure! LOL! V's wife.

[ventana]

Hooray for you. What a great day to have been at St. Pat's. V's wife.

[Almondjoy]

That's not neccessairly tied to morality.. It could also be said that they are tied to basic human rights... that conflicts because of one's individual right's to do things that don't hurt others doesn't exactly mean they are moral(such as drugs.. alcohol.. smoking) would all fit in that class.

[Almondjoy]

Correct.. but not all are religious.. define murder.. is it when a being as a soul? do fetus' have souls at conception? Some religions belief that we can reincarnate into animals.. so on the premise we also are committing murder by killing animals.. I can go in circles with you all day on this I'm sure.. but it comes down to a belief that is not substanated by science giving you no right(no matter how right you really are) to make people follow the mortality of your religion.

[Loyalist]

When Paul VI was plain old Archbishop Giovanni Battista Montini and Secretary of State under Pius XII, he deliberately disobeyed Pius XII's orders not to maintain unofficial diplomatic contacts with Communist countries.

For his disobedience, he was sent to Milan as Archbishop in 1954, and was not appointed Cardinal. Considering the historical significance of the See of St. Ambrose, not being appointed Cardinal was a sign of the strongest disapproval.

John XXIII, in his naivety, appointed him Cardinal after he was elected, and called the Council. Perhaps he came to regret both acts: some say his dying words were "Close the Council! Close the Council!"

What has this got to do with the present crisis in the American Church? Everything.

[Almondjoy]

Or maybe it's just a bunch of atoms clumped together that God can't actually inject a soul into until the brain is formed.. hmmmmmmmm of course I'm just guessing here but aren't you too? :)

[ejo]

" Ite, missa est" and the usual reply was "Deo gratias" translated saying: Go the Mass is ended, response was, Thanks be to God.

[ThomasMore]

Very well may be the case. I don't think the issue is clear cut though. Too many facets and personalities to be cut and dry. Regardless, the bishops really have a problem to deal with and they need to do it right. No more cover-ups or glossing over. No more empty words; just righteous action!