St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[ELS]

LOL!

[Orual]

A bitter blow to Brazil.

Well, he said "probably". I'm sure there are a few other countries in the Western Hemisphere vying for the title.

[glory]

LOL..worthy of a chuckle:-)

[billbears]

I agree wholeheartedly!! Heaven forbid the man point out that the disorder occuring within the church is just a sign of how far society within this nation has fallen in just the past 100 or so odd years

[Notwithstanding]

Strangely, this meeting is what the media is abuzz about, yet FR moderators pull the "breaking news" designation from this article when it is the only infor that has come staight from Rome.

• AGENDA FOR MEETING IN VATICAN WITH U.S. CARDINALS

  VATICAN CITY, APR 22, 2002 (VIS) - Following is the agenda and the list of participants of the April 23-24 meeting in the Vatican between United States cardinals and members of the Roman Curia:

  On April 23 and 24, in the Bologna Hall of the Apostolic Palace, there will be, as previously announced, an interdicasterial meeting with United States cardinals and with the presidency of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States.

  The meeting follows talks that took place recently in the Vatican with representatives of the Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States, with a view to the assembly that this same episcopal conference will hold in Dallas from June 13 to 15.

  The Holy Father will closely follow the work, compatible with his previously arranged appointments, including Wednesday morning's general audience.

  The following will participate in the meeting:

  1. Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State, President.

  United States Cardinals:

  2. Cardinal Bernard Francis Law, Archbishop of Boston.
  3. Cardinal Roger Michael Mahony, Archbishop of Los Angeles.
  4. Cardinal Anthony Joseph Bevilacqua, Archbishop of Philadelphia.
  5. Cardinal William Henry Keeler, Archbishop of Baltimore.
  6. Cardinal Adam Joseph Maida, Archbishop of Detroit.
  7. Cardinal Francis Eugene George, Archbishop of Chicago.
  8. Cardinal Theodore Edgar McCarrick, Archbishop of Washington.
  9. Cardinal Edward Michael Egan, Archbishop of New York.
  10. Cardinal James Aloysius Hickey, Archbishop emeritus di Washington.
  11. Cardinal Avery Dulles.
  

  Conference of Catholic Bishops of the United States:

  12. Bishop Wilton Daniel Gregory, President.
  13. Bishop William Stephen Skylstad, Vice President.
  14. Msgr. William P. Fay, secretary general.
  

  United States Cardinals of the Curia:

  15. Cardinal William Wakefield Baum, Archbishop emeritus of Washington, Major Penitentiary emeritus.
  16. Cardinal Edmund Casimir Szoka, Archbishop emeritus of Detroit and President of the Pontifical Commission for Vatican City State.
  17. Cardinal James Francis Stafford, Archbishop emeritus of Denver and President of the Pontifical Council for the Laity.
  

  Heads of Dicastery of the Roman Curia:

  18. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
  19. Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, prefect of the Congregation for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life.
  20. Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re, prefect of the Congregation for Bishops.
  21. Cardinal Jorge Arturo Medina Estevez, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of Sacraments.
  22. Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, prefect of the Congregation for Clergy.
  23. Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski, prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education.
  24. Archbishop Julian Herranz, president of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts.
  

  The meetings will begin at 9:30 a.m. and will continue until 12:30 p.m. They will reconvene at 4:30 p.m. and end at 7:30 p.m., according to the following schedule:

  Tuesday April 23
  Opening prayer of Adsumus; Welcome by Cardinal Angelo Sodano, Secretary of State; Speech by the president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops; Speeches by United States Cardinals, in order of diaconate; Speech by the Holy Father; Recitation of the Regina Coeli and conclusion of the morning sessions.
  Speeches by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos and the heads of dicasteries; Resumption of speeches by United States Cardinals, and concluding prayer.

  Wednesday April 24
  Prayer of Adsumus; Presentation of the proposals of the preceding day, by the president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops; Open floor for discussion; Recitation of the Regina Coeli and conclusion of the morning sessions.

  Final meeting. OP/MEETING:US CARDINALS/... VIS 20020422 (550)

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[Avoiding_Sulla]

The major reasons behind the laws making abortion illegal were advances in medicine and the feminism of the suffragettes. Up until the early 19th century most physicians and other people had no idea that unborn children were alive, before the so called 'quickening' in the fifth month, which had been interpreted as the beginning of life. Abortion was not feasible after that point, and the realization that the child was alive led the medical associations to forbid physicians to assist in abortions.

Early suffragettes, such as Susan B. Anthony, recognized that the function of abortion was to allow men to exploit women for sexual purposes, without consequences. The fact that this is true is still demonstrated by the fact that abortion is more supported by men than women in America today.

I bet you didn't find this on the front page of the NYTimes. All the more reason to keep it handy.

[eastsider]

[A]bortion is more supported by men than women in America today.

If this is really true, it's a major revelation.

[EdReform]

Bump

[Gophack]

Even if the retain they celibacy rules, which are completely arbitrary and not in the Bible BTW

St. Paul was celibate. Jesus Himself said in Matthew 19:12:

For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.

While celibacy is not doctrine but discipline, it has been practiced since the time of Jesus and the Apostles, and it has been required for more than 1,000 years.

Celibacy is not the problem. Homosexuality is the problem. The Pope has been addressing this issue for more than a decade in America, and the United States Bishops feared bad publicity more than the wrath of God. This is a serious problem, though not as widespread as the liberal, anti-Catholic media would like us to believe. The problem must be addressed and taken care of, our seminaries purged of leaders who promote homosexuals within their ranks.

And while this is a serious problem that must be dealt with, the Catholic Church still stands and will stand until the end of time because "the gates of Hell shall not prevail."

God bless.

[Domestic Church]

Even yesterday's letter didn't acknowledge any wrongdoing, and although at least it sounded apologetic, it still struck me as more crafted than contrite.

Yes, crafted not contrite. I wish he would speak more from the heart. And knowing the Cardinals gathered together in Philly before jumping the Atlantic puddle to Rome doesn't sound good either. I can't help but wonder about all the protective legal aspects and end runs that were discussed. There are many good and holy men in our church but they need to be bumped up to the hierarchy. We need saintly leadership.

[EdReform]

I am waiting for either the media, or the church leaders, to begin to call this crime by its name, "Homosexual Statutory Rape".

Sex before 8 - or it's too late! Craige McMillan on how media covers for homosexual child abusers

[Almondjoy]

First off that is your opinion.. I don't want to take away from your opinion at all as I am a Christian.. but I will tell you because of our religion.. it doesn't mean we get to be arrogant that we are the SAVED! No it doesn't mean that we get to parade around in our salavation that we are better than everyone else. Forcing morals onto others may be heard most often from the left.. but it's also what God wants.. subjagation was not in God's plan... teaching and understanding is what God's plan was.

[ventana]

Hey, no problemo!

[BlessedBeGod]

As a lifelong, active Catholic, I reassert that this is nothing more than circling the wagons, deflecting blame from an arrogant priest/Bishop mindset that believes it does not have to follow the same rules that it imposes upon others.

I believe what Msgr. Clark is doing is going to the root cause of the problem. He's not absolving the priests or bishops of their sins, but saying that until and unless we clean up the root cause, those kind of priests that do these things will still exist and find their way into the Church.

Of course there are other things we need to do, (like jail the offenders, change procedures in admitting men to the seminary, cooperate with the police, etc), but we still need to attend to the root cause of it all, and he is reiterating what that is.

[eastsider]

I wish he would speak more from the heart.

If he only had one. : )

[BlessedBeGod]

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin,..."

The tendency is a disorder, the actual act itself is a sin.

The Msgr. is separating the sin from the sinner.

[eastsider]

While celibacy is not doctrine but discipline, it has been practiced since the time of Jesus and the Apostles, and it has been required for more than 1,000 years.

Celibacy was indeed practiced by Jesus, and there is evidence that those apostles who were married practiced continence. But the exclusively celibate diocesan priesthood stems no further back than the Council of Trent -- a little over 400 years.

[eastsider]

Paul convened Vatican II

John XXIII convened Vatican II, not Paul VI.

[ELS]

AlmondJoy: morality cannot be forced on to others

Me: That's a typical chant of the left as they force their "morals" on everyone else. The difference is that their morals are all relative, whereas Christian morals are absolute as defined and revealed by God.

First off that is your opinion.

Which part are you referring to as being my opinion? That leftists talk about conservatives "forcing their morality on others"? That leftists are moral relativists? Or that Judeo-Christian morals are absolute?

but I will tell you because of our religion.. it doesn't mean we get to be arrogant that we are the SAVED! No it doesn't mean that we get to parade around in our salavation that we are better than everyone else.

I said no such thing, nor do I hold that position. However, there is an absolute Truth that the left avoids like the plague. I would agree that teaching and understanding eternal truths is the optimal and ultimate way to spread the Truth, but one must fight against the blatant lies and deception of the left. "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."