St. Pat Msgr. Hits Gays On Scandal / Blames woes on 'disorder,' U.S. immorality

New York Daily News ^ | 4/22/02 | NICOLE BODE and GREG GITTRICH

[kattracks]

Edward Cardinal Egan's stand-in at St. Patrick's Cathedral pointedly blamed the priest sex abuse scandal yesterday on homosexuality, a "sex-saturated" society and a constant assault on celibacy by liberals.

In a 15-minute homily from the most prominent Roman Catholic pulpit in the city, Msgr. Eugene Clark labeled the United States "probably the most immoral country" in the Western hemisphere. He also called homosexuality "a disorder" and said gay men shouldn't be allowed to become priests.

Clark, 76, a longtime key player and conservative voice in the Archdiocese of New York, delivered his stinging homily as Egan and other U.S. cardinals left for Rome to meet with the Pope about priestly pedophilia.

After preaching about forgiveness, Clark detailed reasons he believes some priests victimized children. He appeared to place most of the blame on homosexuality, saying the theory that people are born gay "is not true."

"The tendency to homosexuality is a disorder, not a sin," he said. "But the practice of homosexuality is truly sinful."

Some parishioners in the packed pews shifted uneasily, others nodded in agreement and a few walked out. But Clark continued, arguing that it was a "grave mistake" to allow gays in the priesthood. He blamed American society for being "very protective" of homosexuality.

"Homosexuality became in the American exchange of views a protected area," he said. "And unfortunately ... homosexual students were allowed to pass through seminaries. Grave mistake. Not because homosexuals in anyway tend to criminality, but because it is a disorder."

'The Most Immoral Country'

Clark also criticized what he called "the campaign of liberal America against celibacy."

He theorized that priests who have a tendency toward sexually abusing children — a group he pegged at 3% of the nation's clergy — were affected by a barrage of sinful images in society.

"Liberated sex is offered to people all day long, all evening long," he said. "There is nothing quite like it."

"We know — we won't mention it outside the cathedral — we are probably the most immoral country certainly in the Western hemisphere and maybe the larger circle because of the entertainment we suffer and what it's done to our [country's] morals ...," Clark said.

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27. "I thought, wouldn't it be great if the entire church walked out?"

But few did. Most parishioners stayed, and many applauded Clark after his sermon.

Marianne Duddy, executive director of Dignity/USA, the nation's largest organization of gay Catholics, called Clark's comments linking the sex scandal with homosexuality "incredibly horrifying and irresponsible."

"This is a poor attempt to deflect attention away from the church's culpability for the sexual abuse of minors by priests and its attempt to cover it up for decades," she added.

But Catholic League President William Donohue praised Clark. "He makes a great deal of sense and to have this said so articulately by one of the brighter priests in the New York area is very encouraging," Donohue said.

"The internal problem in the church is a lack of governance and due to diligence," he added. "But there is no question about it — this is a societywide problem that goes way beyond the Catholic Church."

With Gretchen E. Weber

[concerned about politics]

It doesn't make sense and it shifts blame away from those who are truly responsible for the current crisis. If these pederasts had been kicked out of the priesthood when these incidents were first discovered

Look what happened to the Boy Scouts. Maybe the church was trying to correct it from within, because the left would be out in full force to destroy it if it were made public. They HATE morality teaching. Homosexuals, Mother Earth worshipers, athiests, socialists , and every other low life who decides to join would do their best to destroy it. People would stay away from the church, not out of discust, but out of fear. The left uses hate tactics to no end. This would have, and now has, givin the left all the fodder they need to declare war. They're out picketing, calling priests and supporters names, and putting the message "pedophile" in the forefront, rather than "homosexual", as it truely is.

[concerned about politics]

Kev, we are all laughing at you, not with you...

Who is "we?" Names, please.

[SkyPilot]

BUT NO They have to try and infiltrate existing organizations

Exactly.

By the way, I predict this will be a long thread.

[Domestic Church]

"As I said, I have no problem with booting active homosexuals out of the priesthood (and active heterosexuals, for that matter). But we need to be very careful to distinguish between priests who are celibate and those who are not. Or, as I'm beginning to suspect, are you of the opinion that homosexuals are incapable of being celibate?"

Someone posted an article on FR recently in which some psychologist said something about the gay libido being much stronger than the straight and that 30% of gay men were attracted to teenage boys. It was the first time I had read anything along these lines.

At this point, I fear it will be very hard for even chaste and celibate homosexual men to function effectively in the priesthood as pastors having moral authority. The problem is the current duplicity (which is really just a symptom of the greater problem of unofficial schism from magisterial teaching) needs a major overhaul if it is really addressed and those who are perceived as gay or effeminate will have that gay perception undermining their pastoral duties.

[mwl1]

As a lifelong, active Catholic, I reassert that this is nothing more than circling the wagons, deflecting blame from an arrogant priest/Bishop mindset that believes it does not have to follow the same rules that it imposes upon others.

[concerned about politics]

This should be STRESSED. They are free to start their own BSA or churches and advertise homosexuals welcome with open arms. This is a free country.

It wouldn't work. Only a few members would attend. If they started their own, the fallacy that they are a large group would be exposed. Remember, homosexuals are about 1% of the whole country. There isn't that many. They scream loud and pretend to be 50%, but that's all a lie. They are a very small minority. 99% of Americans are not gay. They recieved their power from anti-family Clinton. Anything to create social unrest would be accepted by Clinton. It suited his long term agenda.

[Almondjoy]

That's a bunch of crap and you know it. What you're telling me is because of liberals certain priests thought it was ok to molest kids? These priests have no excuse for what they did.. celabet.. homosexual or whatever they had the choice to do what they did.. leave the church.. whatever but they had their own senses to determine their course of action. At any case the priest is right when he says homosexuals shouldn't be in the priesthood. I see it like this... the church is a community of people who believe in a certain thing. Nobody is saying that homosexuals can't practice religion.. it's just that if they want to do that then they need to start their own church. Catholics shouldn't have to bend their rules around people to be PC.. it's a religion for a reason.. something that has been with us for 1000's of years based on certain beliefs. You don't bend those beliefs around people so they can be included. The beauty of religion is that there is so many different cultures and societies that have their own religion based off of morals, teachings or what have you.

[SuziQ]

Christine Schubert of St. Paul dashed out of the cathedral midway through the homily. "I left because I realized I have no desire to be connected with the institution of the Catholic Church," said Schubert, 27.

I'm glad she walked out. There's no need for her to stay if she's not willing to live by the teachings of the Church. I'm sure there are several denominations which would be glad to see her. It's too bad she doesn't seem to be concerned about sinful activity which corrupts the Church and society.

Kudos to Msgr. Clark for telling it like it is! Some folks my not have wanted to hear it, but the truth is hard sometimes.

[Wm Bach]

Who is "we?" Names, please.

Add me to the list of those laughing at his coprophilia.

[Grampa Dave]

I'm specifically talking about the homosexual activists invading our churches for the past two decades and in particuliar the last decade. They now control most seminaries and the good guys/gals are forced out.

When these homosexual activists, who don't believe, become priests, bishops, ministers and ? in our churches, they start the downwards swing in attendance and often the end of the community church that they are in charge of.

[sinkspur]

At this point, I fear it will be very hard for even chaste and celibate homosexual men to function effectively in the priesthood as pastors having moral authority.

How do you tell a celibate gay is gay? This is a serious question. I have a real problem with subjective judgements made about a man just because he likes Maria Callas arias and may have certain effeminate mannerisms.

Someone posted an article on FR recently in which some psychologist said something about the gay libido being much stronger than the straight and that 30% of gay men were attracted to teenage boys. It was the first time I had read anything along these lines.

How many heterosexual men are attracted to teenage girls? And what does a "much stronger libido" mean?

We need to keep our heads and not run off in all directions. I know two priests who I SUSPECT may be homosexually-oriented, but they are good men, well-liked by their parishioners, and have never strayed, as far as I know.

I would hate for these two guys to get caught up in some kind of witch hunt.

[uncbob]

a man who was sexually abused by a priest at age 14,

That is considered rape because of the age and once the teenagers mind gets screwed up it is probably hard to break free

[B Knotts]

What you're telling me is because of liberals certain priests thought it was ok to molest kids?

No. That's not what I said at all. What I said is that the liberal culture that developed within the Church and seminaries looked the other way at behaviors that should have long ago been stopped. As a result, it created a framework in which despicable decisions were made. I'm not excusing the bishops at all; I'm saying that they were the ones that created this culture, or at the very least, allowed it to be created and sustained.

[SuziQ]

A similar situation exists for those who were the victims of homosexual molestation. They probably feel they were the cause and must really be homosexual . They also probably think they are now worthless as a heterosexual mate for the opposite sex and drift into a full fledged homosexual lifestyle.

Something similar happened to my nephew, only it was a fellow student in his high school who HAD been seduced by an adult into the lifestyle. My nephew was having a difficult time because his mom was on her third husband (after my brother) and his mom's mother gave him some tranquilizers to calm him down. Maybe using them lowered his 'resistance', I don't know, but the other kid offered 'friendship and compassion' and seduced my nephew. This led to that downward spiral. He moved to New Orleans and got totally immersed in the homosexual lifestyle at the same time drinking heavily to dull his senses. He became an alcoholic, then tested positive for HIV. At that point he came to his senses, stopped drinking and came back home.

At this time he's doing very well as far as his health is concerned, and he's working with my brother in his company. He wishes he'd never gotten involved with the lifestyle, but realizes that he had been very vulnerable at that time, which that other kid saw as well.

[gumbo]

Joe Zwilling (spokesman for the Archdiocese of New York) is on WABC radio NOW chastising Msgr. Clark!

Says he didn't hear all Msgr. Clark's remarks, but that Clark's suggestion that "homosexuals are somehow more inclined to pedophilia" than others, is "unfair."

[St.Chuck]

Bill Blakemore, reporting for ABC news from the Vatican Sunday...

This morning's report on CBS news still described the story in terms of pedophilia. The real scandal is the homosexuality in the clergy. This is a good story to keep up with to see what media outlets are interested in reporting the truth.

[uncbob]

Catholics shouldn't have to bend their rules around people to be PC.

Just to remind you again that BSA supreme court case was only 5 to 4 and the HOMOSEXUAL crowd will be back with a vengeance if a liberal replaces a conservative on the court

Catholics represent a hell of a big block of voters but way too many still vote for the pro abortion, pro homosexual agenda politicians because they are democrat. It is maddening trying to talk to these people

[gumbo]

Should have mentioned, Zwilling's live comments on WABC are on the John Gambling show.

And Gambling is agreeing with Zwilling -- says Msgr. Clark's statements were "EXTREME."

[Warhammer]

uncbob writes:

***WARNING*** Things are already in place for using the threat of HATE CRIME SPEECH against those who woulod dare take a public stand against this situation.

To which the Apostle Paul (writing under the direction of the LORD's Holy Spirit) replies, writing almost 2000 years ago:

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Romans 1:18-32

God, speaking through the Apostle Paul has weighed in on this matter. Perhaps we should listen. Perhaps we should choose to trust Him and stand for what is right. Sure it's scary, but we need to remember

Do not fear, for I am with you. Do not look anxiously about you, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, surely I will help you, surely I will uphold you with my right hand. -- Isaiah 41:10

Or the words to Joshua who was confronted with a scary underaking for the LORD:

Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."