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Saudis Desperate for Russian Help
STRATFOR ^ | 19 Apr 02 | STRATFOR

Posted on 04/19/2002 6:35:35 PM PDT by 11B3

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To: dennisw
That all depends upon your definition of "end times."

We are certainly in the akhrit ha-yamim, gematria=724, which began in Sept of 1516 and last till the end of the world. That was confirmed by Luther in the West and Suleiman in the East, as being the proper date, but 2240-724 yields it in any event.

The ketz ha-yamim, =295, began in 1945, as yielded by 2240-295=1945. These are mathematically certain and we are in them by definition.

In a couple of places in Scripture, the "end of days"=ketz ha-yomin, is spelled in that or similar ways to give a value longer than 295, but that just moves the beginning of them back from 1945 to as far as 1905, but 1945 is still the norm and the concise spelling.

It is very probable that what YOU mean is: are we in the Final Generation=Tribulation, which lasts at the longest 29.5 years and at the least 7 years. That may yield something like your 40% chance that we are in it already, but I would probably give a 51% chance even on THAT!

101 posted on 04/20/2002 6:47:26 AM PDT by crystalk
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To: 11B3
I hope you are right and Putin is indeed a smart capitalist but also understands the historical animosity between islam and the Christian west and what the west must do in order to present a united front against Islamic imperialism.
102 posted on 04/20/2002 7:32:58 AM PDT by eleni121
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To: Common Tator
What gets me is their unreality. They don't seem to grok that the only thing that has kept them around this long is our patronage. They are biting the hand that feeds them. I suspect they have come to believe their own propaganda. Acting out of fear or cynical calculation I could understand. But that does not explain their determination to cross us, when we are the one force that could save them. I think it is straight pride, hubris. You know, royalty without a parliament has this tendency to surround itself with flatterers, and descend into a delusional sense of self-importance.

Perhaps they simply are that far gone. They think we haven't propped them up, but instead that they are so important we hang on their every word. So they imagine they can bid out their importance elsewhere. If we need them so much, they must be so valuable as friends that everyone will want to help them. They seem constitutionally incapable of grasping the idea of graditude. The folly of the thing is still striking.

103 posted on 04/20/2002 8:12:34 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: 11B3
I'd have a lot easier time believing that if the Russians weren't selling nuclear technology to Iran. But they are, and continue to do so under strong protest from us.

Which to me reads like something other than full alliance with us against Islam. On the contrary, what it looks like is stoking up problems with Islam in order to keep us busy. We go running around putting out terrorist fires. They keep supplying terrorist states three steps ahead of us with more and more threatening weapons, while saying they are our friends and allies and avoiding all direct confrontation.

Result - we are too busy putting out fires to bother them. They think of this as creating security during a period they themselves probably read as weakness on their part, while trying to get their economy in order and growing again. You and I may see that we are no real threat to Russia because we have no ambitions there. But that doesn't mean they see it that way.

They are probably far more conscious of their present weakness than we are, and far less comfortable depending on our good will. They remember problems with the Ukraine, and the blow-up over Serbia, and are not convinced NATO has no real ambitions eastward. Their interests are for the EU and the US to not quite see eye to eye, and for the US to be distracted - by China (a year ago), or by Islam (now), or by both.

It is foolish to expect altruistic action by foreign great powers. Russia is a great power with its own interests, and not an ally. Allies don't give hostile states nuclear technology. It is not like the Iranians don't have enough oil to generate electricity. They are obviously interested in Russian-built nuclear plants for only one reason.

104 posted on 04/20/2002 8:23:16 AM PDT by JasonC
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To: 11B3
.


OF NOTE: FR EXCLUSIVE


The International Import and Export query channels are now being "flooded" with so called "URGENT" request for shipments of COPPER, LEAD and raw chemical suppliers (content non-specified). Could this be significant? Look at the requests being directed to places like the African Market and Asian market. I have NOT seen any of this on the US Import / Export sheets. Can anyone confirm this observation?


.

105 posted on 04/20/2002 8:55:45 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: JasonC
Which to me reads like something other than full alliance with us against Islam. On the contrary, what it looks like is stoking up problems with Islam in order to keep us busy. We go running around putting out terrorist fires. They keep supplying terrorist states three steps ahead of us with more and more threatening weapons, while saying they are our friends and allies and avoiding all direct confrontation.

But this is exactly what West did to Russians in Chechnya and in the Balkans against Russian friends.

106 posted on 04/20/2002 9:06:15 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Parmy
Putin, from what I can tell, is a sincere Russian nationalist who wants the best for his people (and he hasn't been seducted by the siren song of universalism...he genuinely seems to stick up for his Russian people).

He is positioning Russia perfectly to become the major supplier of oil and natural gas to all of europe. He has also instituted a variety of economic policies that would be immediately rejected by our own democrats as being "too conservative".

On the whole, I think that russia may be on the rebound. It always had enormous potential...but was hobbled by a barbaric and unworkable social/political system.

107 posted on 04/20/2002 9:17:03 AM PDT by quebecois
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To: jadimov
A US takeover of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina would be a sure prescription for general war against all muslims. A better solution would be the dissolution of Saudi Arabia into separate countries. The provinces of Al Madinah (Medina) and Makkah (Mecca) would become countries - "holy lands". Al Hudud ash Shamaliyah and Ash Sharqiyah are the oil rich provinces. The oil rich areas should be split into small oil emirates like Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE. The rest of the country would be turned over to the Hashemite family.

This would separate the oil, the holy cities, and the Wahhabi. It would also take power from the radical Wahhabi and return it to the Hashemi, an old conservative family descended from the prophet (which should ensure backing of clerics and other Muslims).

An excellent prescription. I would add that half of the profit from pumping the oil should be earmarked for accelerated nuclear fusion research.

Seize the Oil Fields. Destroy the House of Saud.

108 posted on 04/20/2002 9:23:27 AM PDT by tictoc
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To: 11B3
Good analysis, but Mecca and Medina have no oil. The House of Saud can keep them as their own little desert satrapy. The Ottoman Empire can take over Iraq (its original territory) and Russia and the West can jointly occupy the Eastern Province as reparations for the years of Islamic Terrorist from New York to Moscow to Checenya to Kashmir.
109 posted on 04/20/2002 9:36:54 AM PDT by Vigilanteman
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To: 11B3
I just jumped in here, excellent analysis. I've been seeing the US/Russian alliance coming for a while, also. Clinton totally blew the opportunity here, and the wise men now in charge are going to rectify that.

This partnership is very natural, given the Mid-Eastern venom coming our mutual ways.

What a huge kick start a Saudi, Iraq & Iran oil embargo would be to Russia. In addition, this alliance will be worth many late night sessions in the PRC, maybe even a change in political wind in Bejing.

110 posted on 04/20/2002 10:09:14 AM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: 11B3
This article outlines an interesting threat. Drill in ANWR. Forget the Wahhabists of the house of Saud, who obviously advocate Saddam's ongoing mass murder of his own people.

Source: Amnesty International

This is Saudi. Should we really care what any of Saudi's zillions of "princes" think?

AI-index: MDE 23/003/2002    15/03/2002

Saudi Arabia : Investigation into tragic death of 14 school girls must be transparent and public

Amnesty International is gravely concerned at reports that 14 girls have lost their lives and dozens of others were injured following a fire at their school in Mecca on 11 March 2002 after the religious police (Mutawa'een) prevented them from escaping from the fire because they were not wearing headscarves and their male relatives were not there to receive them.

The religious police are also reported to have prevented rescuers from entering the school because they were males and therefore not permitted to mix with females.

"If these reports are true, this is a tragic illustration of how gender discrimination can have lethal consequences."

"When state policies on segregation of sexes are implemented at the expense of human life, urgent steps are needed at the highest level. Policies and practises through which the lives of women and girls are devalued must be changed."

Amnesty International welcomes calls for an urgent investigation into these tragic deaths to prevent any future recurrence and for anyone found responsible to be brought to justice. The findings of such investigation must be made public.

Saudi Arabia must take urgent measures to end all forms of discrimination against women in accordance with CEDAW ( Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women ), to which Saudi Arabia is a state party.

Background
The Saudi Arabian English language daily Arab News quoted eye witnesses as having said: ''Whenever the girls got out through the main gate, these people [Mutawa'een] forced them to return via another'',...''instead of extending a helping hand for the rescue work, they were using their hands to beat us,''

111 posted on 04/20/2002 10:32:00 AM PDT by cake_crumb
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Comment #112 Removed by Moderator

To: Cicero
"... a powerful United States of Europe..."

I've spent a lot of time in continental Europe, Cicero. Some very smart people over there. But they have one huge blind spot -- no understanding at all of the basis for freedom and how that freedom impacts economics. They believe they can engineer anything. That, along with their irreverence and disobedience to God, is why they are the birthplace of both communism and fascism. Their arrogance in this regard has led them into one disaster after another. We have rescued them more than once from the effects of their folly, and their ingratitude is legendary. Had it not been for us, Stalin would have ruled over every last one of these countries. Arrogance, ingratitude and envy sum them up nicely.

113 posted on 04/20/2002 12:08:31 PM PDT by Bonaparte
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To: Thinkin' Gal
Mecca, Iraq, WB...

More like,

Hashemite County!

114 posted on 04/20/2002 7:46:58 PM PDT by Jeremiah Jr
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To: Jeremiah Jr
Hashemite County!

Home of the Dukes of Edom...

115 posted on 04/20/2002 8:31:37 PM PDT by Thinkin' Gal
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