Saudis Desperate for Russian Help

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al Faisal traveled to Moscow April 18 to seek Russia's help in countering a belligerent U.S. agenda against Iraq. But Saudi Arabia has little to offer Russia and will likely leave empty-handed, so Riyadh will have few options left but to ally with rogue nations Iran and Iraq.

Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al Faisal traveled to Moscow April 18 to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov. The three talked about Iraq, the recent Saudi-proposed Israeli-Palestinian peace plan and Moscow's involvement in the Middle East.

Saudi Arabia is seeking Russia's help to counter the U.S. agenda in the Middle East. Frightened by the potential consequences of a U.S. strike against Iraq, Riyadh hopes to reverse Moscow's waning support of Baghdad and revive its involvement in Middle East politics. But the Saudi government won't get much more than rhetoric from Russia, and this will leave it looking for allies among the same rogue nations already targeted by Washington.

A possible Saudi-Iraq-Iran coalition to resist U.S. pressure -- even a temporary one built out of necessity -- would entirely reshape regional politics and pose a significant dilemma to the United States. None of the three trust each other, even though technically Iran and Saudi Arabia have a security cooperation agreement. But together they could bring greater political and economic pressure to bear on the smaller Persian Gulf states, upon which Washington grows increasingly reliant.

The government in Riyadh is worried that a U.S. war against Iraq would incite opposition within Saudi Arabia. It has already tried to counter the U.S. agenda by reviving the Middle East peace process and attempting to bring all the Arab states on board. However, Saudi Crown Prince Abdullah's efforts at coalition building -- meant to deflect U.S. pressure for cooperation against Iraq -- failed miserably. Almost half the Arab heads of state failed to show at the March 26-27 Arab League summit in Beirut.

The Saudi government is now turning to global powers like Russia and the European Union to offset U.S. hegemony. In addition to Faisal's trip to Moscow, Riyadh has also called on the EU to do more to end the violence in Israel. But this second attempt at coalition building is also doomed to fail. Europe's involvement in the peace process has done little to alter either Israeli or Palestinian war fighting policies.

Russia and Saudi Arabia have taken U-turns regarding policy toward Baghdad. Saudi Arabia backed the first U.S. war against Iraq, but does not want to see a similar military campaign now. Russia, which opposed Desert Storm, is now working with the United States.

Moscow has several reasons not to cooperate with Saudi Arabia. Most importantly, Putin is concentrating his efforts on rebuilding the Russian empire, at least in part through a strategic partnership with the United States, and has apparently traded opposition to a strike against Iraq in exchange for cooperation with Washington.

Moscow and Riyadh are also longtime geopolitical foes, with Russia traditionally backing Saudi Arabia's regional competitors: Iran, Iraq, Syria and even Yemen. Riyadh supported the Afghan opposition during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and Moscow now accuses it of backing Muslim rebels in Chechnya.

Even if Russia were more amenable to improving relations, Riyadh does not have much to offer, save the disruption of Saudi financial aid for the Chechens. Russia claims that non-governmental organizations in Ingushetia and Dagestan are funded with Saudi money, and that Chechen rebels rely upon these organizations for aid and supplies, thereby prolonging the conflict, said Mark Katz, a professor of government and politics at George Mason University. Riyadh denies that the government has any involvement in supporting these NGOs, but it could try and pressure groups internally affiliated with them.

Saudi Arabia could also buy Russian arms. Riyadh is wholly reliant upon British and American weapons, and as tension with Washington builds it may naturally be looking for an alternative arms supplier. But switching to Russian armaments would require a complete overhaul of the U.S.-and British-outfitted Saudi military, something that would take years.

In any case, such carrots are not enough for Putin to back off his plans to build an alliance with the Bush administration. Following the meeting with Faisal in Moscow April 18, Putin noted that Russia was concerned with the situation in the Middle East. He then went on to point out the lack of economic interaction between Saudi Arabia and Russia, the Russian news agency ITAR-TASS reported. Putin's remarks about the dearth of trade were a not-so-subtle hint that Moscow might sell some influence, but that otherwise Riyadh was getting nothing.

Failing to build broad-based coalitions on both the local and global scale will leave the desert kingdom seeking a third alternative. Having exhausted all other potential allies, Riyadh may find itself appealing to the two nations directly threatened by a U.S. attack on Baghdad: Iraq and Iran.

That all depends upon your definition of "end times."

We are certainly in the akhrit ha-yamim, gematria=724, which began in Sept of 1516 and last till the end of the world. That was confirmed by Luther in the West and Suleiman in the East, as being the proper date, but 2240-724 yields it in any event.

The ketz ha-yamim, =295, began in 1945, as yielded by 2240-295=1945. These are mathematically certain and we are in them by definition.

In a couple of places in Scripture, the "end of days"=ketz ha-yomin, is spelled in that or similar ways to give a value longer than 295, but that just moves the beginning of them back from 1945 to as far as 1905, but 1945 is still the norm and the concise spelling.

It is very probable that what YOU mean is: are we in the Final Generation=Tribulation, which lasts at the longest 29.5 years and at the least 7 years. That may yield something like your 40% chance that we are in it already, but I would probably give a 51% chance even on THAT!

What gets me is their unreality. They don't seem to grok that the only thing that has kept them around this long is our patronage. They are biting the hand that feeds them. I suspect they have come to believe their own propaganda. Acting out of fear or cynical calculation I could understand. But that does not explain their determination to cross us, when we are the one force that could save them. I think it is straight pride, hubris. You know, royalty without a parliament has this tendency to surround itself with flatterers, and descend into a delusional sense of self-importance.

Perhaps they simply are that far gone. They think we haven't propped them up, but instead that they are so important we hang on their every word. So they imagine they can bid out their importance elsewhere. If we need them so much, they must be so valuable as friends that everyone will want to help them. They seem constitutionally incapable of grasping the idea of graditude. The folly of the thing is still striking.

I'd have a lot easier time believing that if the Russians weren't selling nuclear technology to Iran. But they are, and continue to do so under strong protest from us.

Which to me reads like something other than full alliance with us against Islam. On the contrary, what it looks like is stoking up problems with Islam in order to keep us busy. We go running around putting out terrorist fires. They keep supplying terrorist states three steps ahead of us with more and more threatening weapons, while saying they are our friends and allies and avoiding all direct confrontation.

Result - we are too busy putting out fires to bother them. They think of this as creating security during a period they themselves probably read as weakness on their part, while trying to get their economy in order and growing again. You and I may see that we are no real threat to Russia because we have no ambitions there. But that doesn't mean they see it that way.

They are probably far more conscious of their present weakness than we are, and far less comfortable depending on our good will. They remember problems with the Ukraine, and the blow-up over Serbia, and are not convinced NATO has no real ambitions eastward. Their interests are for the EU and the US to not quite see eye to eye, and for the US to be distracted - by China (a year ago), or by Islam (now), or by both.

It is foolish to expect altruistic action by foreign great powers. Russia is a great power with its own interests, and not an ally. Allies don't give hostile states nuclear technology. It is not like the Iranians don't have enough oil to generate electricity. They are obviously interested in Russian-built nuclear plants for only one reason.

But this is exactly what West did to Russians in Chechnya and in the Balkans against Russian friends.

Putin, from what I can tell, is a sincere Russian nationalist who wants the best for his people (and he hasn't been seducted by the siren song of universalism...he genuinely seems to stick up for his Russian people).

He is positioning Russia perfectly to become the major supplier of oil and natural gas to all of europe. He has also instituted a variety of economic policies that would be immediately rejected by our own democrats as being "too conservative".

On the whole, I think that russia may be on the rebound. It always had enormous potential...but was hobbled by a barbaric and unworkable social/political system.

A US takeover of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina would be a sure prescription for general war against all muslims. A better solution would be the dissolution of Saudi Arabia into separate countries. The provinces of Al Madinah (Medina) and Makkah (Mecca) would become countries - "holy lands". Al Hudud ash Shamaliyah and Ash Sharqiyah are the oil rich provinces. The oil rich areas should be split into small oil emirates like Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, and the UAE. The rest of the country would be turned over to the Hashemite family.
This would separate the oil, the holy cities, and the Wahhabi. It would also take power from the radical Wahhabi and return it to the Hashemi, an old conservative family descended from the prophet (which should ensure backing of clerics and other Muslims).

An excellent prescription. I would add that half of the profit from pumping the oil should be earmarked for accelerated nuclear fusion research.

Seize the Oil Fields. Destroy the House of Saud.

I just jumped in here, excellent analysis. I've been seeing the US/Russian alliance coming for a while, also. Clinton totally blew the opportunity here, and the wise men now in charge are going to rectify that.

This partnership is very natural, given the Mid-Eastern venom coming our mutual ways.

What a huge kick start a Saudi, Iraq & Iran oil embargo would be to Russia. In addition, this alliance will be worth many late night sessions in the PRC, maybe even a change in political wind in Bejing.

This article outlines an interesting threat. Drill in ANWR. Forget the Wahhabists of the house of Saud, who obviously advocate Saddam's ongoing mass murder of his own people.

Source: Amnesty International

This is Saudi. Should we really care what any of Saudi's zillions of "princes" think?

AI-index: MDE 23/003/2002 15/03/2002

Saudi Arabia : Investigation into tragic death of 14 school girls must be transparent and public

Amnesty International is gravely concerned at reports that 14 girls have lost their lives and dozens of others were injured following a fire at their school in Mecca on 11 March 2002 after the religious police (Mutawa'een) prevented them from escaping from the fire because they were not wearing headscarves and their male relatives were not there to receive them.

The religious police are also reported to have prevented rescuers from entering the school because they were males and therefore not permitted to mix with females.

"If these reports are true, this is a tragic illustration of how gender discrimination can have lethal consequences."

"When state policies on segregation of sexes are implemented at the expense of human life, urgent steps are needed at the highest level. Policies and practises through which the lives of women and girls are devalued must be changed."

Amnesty International welcomes calls for an urgent investigation into these tragic deaths to prevent any future recurrence and for anyone found responsible to be brought to justice. The findings of such investigation must be made public.

Saudi Arabia must take urgent measures to end all forms of discrimination against women in accordance with CEDAW ( Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women ), to which Saudi Arabia is a state party.

Background
The Saudi Arabian English language daily Arab News quoted eye witnesses as having said: ''Whenever the girls got out through the main gate, these people [Mutawa'een] forced them to return via another'',...''instead of extending a helping hand for the rescue work, they were using their hands to beat us,''

"... a powerful United States of Europe..."

I've spent a lot of time in continental Europe, Cicero. Some very smart people over there. But they have one huge blind spot -- no understanding at all of the basis for freedom and how that freedom impacts economics. They believe they can engineer anything. That, along with their irreverence and disobedience to God, is why they are the birthplace of both communism and fascism. Their arrogance in this regard has led them into one disaster after another. We have rescued them more than once from the effects of their folly, and their ingratitude is legendary. Had it not been for us, Stalin would have ruled over every last one of these countries. Arrogance, ingratitude and envy sum them up nicely.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

OF NOTE: FR EXCLUSIVE