Frank Zito says he shot police because they broke his door{ unreasonable search and seizure }

The Star Democrat ^ | April 04, 2002 | By: BRIAN HAAS

[Hajman]

I suppose your post had a point. However, I think I'd need an electron scanning microscope to see it. What is the point of your post?

-The Hajman-

[connectthedots]

What I find somewhat amazing is that all these cops claim the defendant just kept talking after being read his rights, but not a one of them bothered to get it recorded. Something here stinks. This is especially so if the guy allegedly called the the cops Nazis. The last thing a person who had that opinion would do is to 'keep talking'.

Under the circumstances of this case, the defendant will walk; if not aquitted by a jury, he will win on appeal. I fail to understand why cops beat down doors to arrest someone or to serve papers when they could simply wait until the guy goes out in public and arrest or serve them then. Most of these 'mistakes' could easily be avoided since the level of danger would be much reduced.

[Roscoe]

Memorial Fund:
Nickerson/Schwenz Memorial Fund C/O Centreville National Bank, Commerce Street, Centreville MD 21617

Officer MICHAEL NICKERSON (26) - killed in the line of duty
Deputy JASON SCHWENZ (28) - killed in the line of duty

What is the point of your post?

Didn't fit your cop-hater agenda? Too bad.

[connectthedots]

Could another angle for the defense be that Zito knew what the law was regarding unlawful entry and reasonably assumed that the cops, if they were legitimate, would have known that breaking in was illegal? If so, I think the defense position would be enhanced. After all, every cop should know that a forced entry under these circumstances was illegal, and the cops would never break the law, would they?

All in all, this is a very sad situation and our prayers need to be with all those involved. Maybe this should be a lesson to law enforcement personnel and agencies to re-examine the arrogance and utter disregard for the constitutional rights of citizens. This seems to be a cultural thing with too make LEAs and prosecutors. The poor street cop is led to believe that these actions are lawful when the opposite is true.

Another point, just because someone claims to be a cop does not mean they are a cop.

[Hajman]

Didn't fit your cop-hater agenda? Too bad.

I like cops. I've got a good friend who's a police chief. I respect policemen. However, I don't respect people who do things illegally. And this is beside the point. What was your point? You never did provide it.

-The Hajman-

[Roscoe]

Memorial Fund:
Nickerson/Schwenz Memorial Fund C/O Centreville National Bank, Commerce Street, Centreville MD 21617

Officer MICHAEL NICKERSON (26) - killed in the line of duty
Deputy JASON SCHWENZ (28) - killed in the line of duty

Perhaps you could donate to Zito.

[Hajman]

Perhaps you could donate to Zito.

Perhaps the world is flat. Perhaps I'm not broke. Perhaps there's a reason to donate to Zito. Perhaps you actually tell me the point of your post (I won't hold my breath). Perhaps you're capable of actually make a valid, logical, non-emotional point.

What's your point? Do you even have one, except to have straw-man ammo to try to toss ad hominem arguments around?

-The Hajman-

[connectthedots]

Begging the question. Zito wasn't attacked and he knew they were police officers, having refused their requests to come out.

He had no legal duty to 'come out'.

[Roscoe]

GOVERNOR PARRIS N. GLENDENING'S REMARKS
FUNERAL OF PATROLMAN MICHAEL NICKERSON
CHESTERTOWN, MD
FRIDAY, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2001

AS DRAFTED

Good morning. I am honored that Officer Michael Nickerson's family asked me to speak briefly today.

Another hero has fallen. Two days after his fellow police officer, Sheriff's Deputy Jason Schwenz, was laid to rest, we are here to say farewell to Patrolman Michael S. Nickerson.

To the family of Patrolman Nickerson: his mother Sue, his father Joe, his brothers Albert and Philip, please know you have Kathleen and my deepest sympathies. We cannot begin to know the grief you feel today. I only hope our presence here can be a comfort to you. Please know that we are grateful to Michael for his service as a police officer. . . . service for which he made the ultimate sacrifice. Today, as citizens, we stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the police officers gathered here, who protect us daily... nightly... always. We stand side-by-side to pay tribute and respect to a man. . . a man who dedicated his life to one of the most difficult jobs imaginable. It is right that we grieve together, yet it seems so small in comparison to what Patrolman Nickerson gave up for us.

Patrolman Nickerson was only 24-years-old when he gave his life in service to the citizens of our State. We can only imagine the great things which awaited him had he not been taken from us. He was so young, just beginning to rise to his full potential. He had little doubt in his heart about the man he wanted to be. He wanted to serve. His family knew it. His police chief knew it. We now know it. In just three weeks on the job as a Centreville police officer, the citizens of this town and county came to know it as well.

I am thankful there are men and women who care enough to accept the challenges of being a police officer. There are many who could not take up this great cause. We call upon these dedicated individuals to deal with the worst our society has to offer. We call upon them to be part of the law enforcement family on and off the clock. We call upon them to give more than any of us has a right to ask - their very lives.

Euripides said, "When good men die, their goodness does not perish." I believe this can be taken one step further with Officer Nickerson. His cause, his goals, his reason for being a police officer live on.

Patrolman Nickerson is not just a hero because he died in the line of duty. He is a hero because he chose to accept the challenge of being a police officer. He is a hero because he was willing to serve the citizens of Centreville with everything he had, even when it meant giving all he had.

Our hearts are filled with sorrow today, but they are equally filled with gratitude to this fallen officer. We are grateful for his life, for his example, for his service, and for his sacrifice. We can never repay Patrolman Nickerson for what he gave. We can only promise to never forget.

The Bible, Matthew, Chapter 5, verse 9 reads: "Blessed are the peace makers because they shall be called the children of God." As Governor, on behalf of the 5 million citizens of our State, I thank all the peace makers for the job you do every day. And I thank the Nickerson family for including me today. Bless all of you.

Thank you.

---

[Roscoe]

Zito knew they were police officers when he committed the murders.

[Hajman]

Nice speach. I always appriciate those kinds of speaches for police officers. They deserve it.

Now, how about we skip the emotion, and get to the reality of the problem: Those two policemen did something illegal, and an action against them was consistent with their behavior. I don't fall for emotional arguments (though I did enjoy the speach. Thank you for posting it). Emotional arguments are for liberals that can't reason, not for people who actually look at facts and come up with logical conclusions. I'm glad they gave the speach to honor the policemen. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to agree with them breaking and entering the man's house. They did something illegal, they paid the consequences, and them being cops don't make it right. Sorry Roscoe, but the badge doesn't give them free reign to do whatever they want. If they act in a criminal manner, don't be supprised if they're treated as such.

-The Hajman-

[connectthedots]

That is a question of fact, and questions of fact are for the jury to decide.

[Roscoe]

Now, how about we skip the emotion, and get to the reality of the problem: Those two policemen did something illegal...

The "problem" was entering his porch in response to a public disturbance complaint, not the shotgun murder of two men? What an interesting perspective.

Close your eyes, wouldn't want you to get upset.

Memorial Fund:
Nickerson/Schwenz Memorial Fund C/O Centreville National Bank, Commerce Street, Centreville MD 21617

Officer MICHAEL NICKERSON (26) - killed in the line of duty
Deputy JASON SCHWENZ (28) - killed in the line of duty

[Hajman]

The "problem" was entering his porch in response to a public disturbance complaint, not the shotgun murder of two men? What an interesting perspective.

No, the problem was breaking down his door and forcing their way into his home without permission or a warrent. That's illegal, any way you parse it. BTW, if what they did was illegal, then the shooting may not be a murder. Your problem is, is defining it a murder before applying the evidence. In other words, you're going about it backwards. You're suppose to look at the evidence, then deside if it's a murder or not. In other words, you can't claim it's a murder until all evidence has been looked at, and it's been desided the evidence leads to a murder. You're applying the term against the definition. This is circular reasoning, which is a logical fallacy. Everytime you apply murder to the original arguments (which are supposed to define if it's a murder or not), you run into this fallacy and your argument falls apart as invalid.

-The Hajman-

[Roscoe]

No, the problem was breaking down his door and forcing their way into his home without permission or a warrent.

Actually, the porch of the trailer he was renting from his mother, in response to a public disturbance complaint. Either way, the lamest justification for murder imaginable.

That the life of two policemen is worth less than the door of a trailer porch in the eyes of Zito's apologists says a lot about their priorities.

Objecting to information about the victim's fund does too.

Again, shield your eyes.

Memorial Fund:
Nickerson/Schwenz Memorial Fund C/O Centreville National Bank, Commerce Street, Centreville MD 21617

Officer MICHAEL NICKERSON (26) - killed in the line of duty
Deputy JASON SCHWENZ (28) - killed in the line of duty

[Cultural Jihad]

"America is at that awkward stage.
It's too late to work within the system,
but too early to shoot the bastards."
- Che Guevara

[Hajman]

Actually, the porch of the trailer he was renting from his mother, in response to a public disturbance complaint. Either way, the lamest justification for murder imaginable.

A public disturbance complaint isn't justification for an illegal break and entry. You're using murder again before it's been determined (and I noticed you ignored my argument completely, again). Your argument just crashed and burned.

That the life of two policemen is worth less than the door of a trailer porch in the eyes of Zito's apologists says a lot about their priorities.

So, you don't believe in self-defense? You don't believe one has the right to defend their own home against criminal actions and criminal people? Well, I do. BTW, if I was a Zito apologetic, I would say he should go free no matter what. I don't claim that. So you're wrong..again.

Objecting to information about the victim's fund does too.

Did I say I ever objected to it? Nope. Wrong again (at least your consistent). You're using it as an emotional argument, and that's what I object to (which every rational person should). Your argument crashed and burned again.

Can you actually give an argument which isn't based on emotion? I'm still not holding my breath..

-The Hajman-

[Conservative til I die]

Sadly for some here on FR, cops can do no wrong, even when they violate people's civil rights.

[Conservative til I die]

I think the solution is to just erase the 4th AMendment from the Constitution. It's pretty much dead anyway, along with the 10th Amendment. Once those are gone, the 2nd and 1st, in that order are next.

[Cultural Jihad]

So, you don't believe in self-defense? You don't believe one has the right to defend their own home against criminal actions and criminal people?

You haven't shown how Mr. Zito's life was in any danger, or how he acted in self-defense. His defense attorney is going to have the same tough problem selling the militia nutcase spin to 12 rational jurors.