Why Are You Pro-Israel

4/1/02 | elisabeth giles

[ElisabethInCincy]

I love this site.I am a christian and huge follower and researcher of Israel and the events going on there..I wanted to know why so many of you on this board are Pro Israel...Its a great thing to coem to this site and see so much support for Israel...

This site is best online to find great fastttttt breaking news..I am news junkie :))))

[College Repub]

It really doesnt matter whether or not Mary is in David's line. Here's how it works: Whether or not one is of Jewish lineage is determined by whether or not one's mother is. However, the tribe affiliation is through the father. Since Jesus was not related to his father (if he was born to a virgin), then it follows he was not in the same line of Jews as David.

[LostTribe]

>Excuse me, but weren't all the following Bible quotes made where the actual Jews were, and not necessarily all of the Israelites? If there were only Jews in the area, yet they have the same heritage as all Israelites, of course the passages would assume that Jews (this being where the Jews were) Israelites and Hebrews were interchangable terms. That is to say (I'm not doing too well communicating this thought), if one were to go to an area where other Israelites were, none being of Judea, the term "Jew" would not be automatically taken to mean "Isrealite"?

Hello. I was down your way last week. Sure is booming in Alabama with all those auto plants!

Yes, of course those Biblical citations are NT, and each applies to those Israelite/Jews on site. My problem is only with the broader genetic definitions of terms, specifically how they apply to Gods "Chosen People".

When those promises were made there were no Northern and Southern Kingdoms and the Northern Kingdom had not yet gone into its diaspora. That's all. The fact that the Northern Kingdom was not at the center of recorded Biblical activity at the time of Christ does not mean they were/are out of the loop. They were just "otherwise occupied" at the time. -ggg-.

[LostTribe]

>It really doesnt matter whether or not Mary is in David's line. Here's how it works: Whether or not one is of Jewish lineage is determined by whether or not one's mother is. However, the tribe affiliation is through the father. Since Jesus was not related to his father (if he was born to a virgin), then it follows he was not in the same line of Jews as David.

OK, I now understand your point. Tribal affiliation through the Father has been the norm from recorded Biblical history. Changing all that to arrive at "Jewishness" only via the Maternal line does seem seem a bit "contrived" however, if I may say so, in order to perhaps arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is not in the Messianic line, but I do appreciate your explanation and significant contribution to my understanding.

[Psycho_Bunny]

I didn't read all the answers so I don't know if it's been said:

I'm pro-Israel because on 9-12, Israeli flags were flying at half-staff, and Palestinians were dancing in the streets.

I don't think there's anything else that needs to be said.

[College Repub]

It wasn't changed. It's always been like that. Mother and Father. For someone who is born to a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father, the child is simply said to be a child of Israel (ie with no direct tribal affiliation, but Jewish nonetheless). Same thing for one who converts.

[chantal7]

Because the Israelis, like us, have fought, are fighting and will fight against evil. Light vs. Darkness. To me this is instinctive, even deeper than religion.

Israel is the Light in the Darkness that is the Middle East. Hopefully, over the next 20 years or so, we can spread the light of freedom and hope into those dark, oppressive, hate filled countries.

While most Americans like "plucky underdogs", we value their winning spirit, I believe. We'll help people who are down but if they don't try to help themselves, better themselves, then we quickly lose patience with them. The Israelis have tried and are trying to help themselves and make their lives and country better.

I've often thought that alot of the Europeans and some Americans like the "undeserving underdogs" (eg. most Muslim Palestinians) because that's the only way alot of the Europeans and some Americans can feel better about themselves...by having someone always whining and needy, come to them for help. Even when the "professional victims" have brought their troubles onto themselves repeatedly.

Of course, some people in the world just like chaos, power, money, and evil, so they help(use) real or "professional" victims to further their own ends and not from even the feigned compassion that makes some feel better about themselves emotionally by having others in worse conditions than they are.

That's probably why the Muslim Arabs and some of Europeans don't understand true, red blooded Americans.

I think, Israelis are pretty well truthful about events, as opposed to what we hear from the Arab/Palestinian/Muslim side. I have no use for liars, especially habitual liars.

I like the way the Israelis kick @ss when they are attacked, too. :)

I have lived in the Middle East. I have many Arab/Muslim friends that I truly like and even love but I've always admired the Israelis.

Not all Arab/Muslims are bad just as not all Israelis are good. The above is how I generally feel about the different peoples, cultures, and issues but not necessarily individuals.

[Southern Federalist]

I'm pro-Israel for a lot of reasons; here are three:

1. While I don't claim to know as much about God's plan as Christian Zionists do (though I respect them), I do believe that Jews have a God-given right to live in peace in the land of Israel. I also believe that it's a lie to say that the Zionists came in and ran the Palestinians out; I recognize that in 48-49 some Jews drove away some Arabs, but this was not the predominant pattern or the intention of the Jewish leadership. Therefore I believe that Arab rejectionism and antisemitism are at the root of the conflict. So supporting religiously the right of the Jews to live in peace in the land, and recognizing practically the need for a Jewish state to make this possible, correlates with a belief that Arab refusal to live together in the land with Jews violates elementary principles of natural justice.

2. Israel has tried, in the midst of continual war, to bring together all its diverse people and their diverse agendas under a government which is accountable to the people and limited by respect for human rights. I know that they have not perfectly succeeded at this, but I can't imagine who the hell would think they could, under the conditions of the last half century.

I believe that states with that sort of political system are natural allies, and constitute a community of civilized nations that should stick together.

This is a moral duty on the one hand: those who value freedom should not find it easy to stand and watch it be destroyed by its enemies anywhere. It is also a matter of self-interest: states whose governments are not accountable and limited are intrinsically untrustworthy and can never be more than allies of convenience. (Notice that European anti-Americanism and hostility to Israel at the governmental level have grown along with the rise to power of the un-accountable EU bureaucracy).

Therefore Israel is the only regime in the Middle East, besides Turkey, which by its nature can be a real ally of the United States. The same forces that hate Israel hate us; their war is in fact our war.

3. I do not regard the state of Israel as the payback to the Jews for the Holocaust; Zionism made perfectly good sense before the Holocaust, and Jewish settlers were building civilization in the land before Hitler ever came to power. But the Holocaust certainly makes it idiotic to say ever again that Jews don't need a state, that they should be content to let others make the big decisions about their safety and security.

[William Terrell]

Wouldn't tribal lineage follow from the mother in this one time only, extremely special case, and bvecause her's is the only acutal blood line involved; or, since Joseph was the de jure father (God being the de facto), would tribal membership flow from him? How would the Jewish leadership rule at that time had they accepted the Christ?

Any otherwise would seem to me that Jesus wasn't a Jew.

[William Terrell]

Then you're saying that all those fatherless Jews belong to a special tribe headed by Jesus, and not called Jews (seems to me that I remember from my studies some while ago that the Jews were of the tribe of Judea, one of the 12 tribes)?

[LostTribe]

>It wasn't changed. It's always been like that. Mother and Father.

> For someone who is born to a Jewish mother and non-Jewish father, the child is simply said to be a child of Israel (ie with no direct tribal affiliation, but Jewish nonetheless). Same thing for one who converts.

OK, I'm trying to follow these "fine grain" definitions. If all the above are defined as Jews, What then do you call those Jews who are so definined by both Jewish Father and Mother, to distinguish them from having Jewish Mothers only?

[LostTribe]

>my studies some while ago that the Jews were of the tribe of Judea, one of the 12 tribes

You might click on my Profile to clarify this genetic definition and tribal differentiation.

[MissAmericanPie]

I believe the bible says God will destroy all the nations that come against Israel, not that all nations will come against Israel.

I can almost see it all now, the Syrians bombing the Egyptians, the Iranians shooting the Iraqies, the Iraqies unleashing chemical weapons on Iran troops just for the heck of it, the Jordanians shooting the Lebonese. There will be alot of confusion when a bunch of third worlders unleash modern weaponry, that they don't have a clue about. Alot of casualities from mistaken identity, alot of shooting themselves in the foot, alot of deaths by friendly fire.

It will be so rediculous that the Israeli army can pretty much stay home and watch them kill each other on CNN. They can almost unleash their nukes, both tatical and mini from their arm chairs and destroy each country behind it's army.

[William Terrell]

Phooey on auto plants.

From the data you provide, I come to the conclusion that Tribe Judea is using the current historical circunstances to run a coup on the rest of the tribes (i.e. Isrealites) for control of Israel (not the tiny state in the mideast).

[LostTribe]

>Whether or not one is of Jewish lineage is determined by whether or not one's mother is. However, the tribe affiliation is through the father. Since Jesus was not related to his father (if he was born to a virgin), then it follows he was not in the same line of Jews as David.

Assuming this to be the case, how then will the Messiah arrive who meets your standards, and how will you know when he's here?

[College Repub]

Jesus was a Jew because Mary was.

[LostTribe]

>Phooey on auto plants.

Whatsamatta, you no like new cars?

>From the data you provide, I come to the conclusion that Tribe Judea is using the current historical circunstances to run a coup on the rest of the tribes (i.e. Isrealites) for control of Israel (not the tiny state in the mideast).

Well, that sure would make an interesting discussion thread, wouldn't it?

[Duvdevan]

Because I'm a lover of freedom and democracy. I am also an Israeli and a Jew, I serve in the IDF and I am frightend that my children will become victims in another holocoust.

[William Terrell]

Hokay, just change "Judea" to "Judah" in my posts. There should be at least one other.

[JemiansTerror]

I just plain like Israel. I agree with their foreign policy, and I even think that the US should adopt a similar foreign policy. I also think that Palestine should have a country to them selves but that they have lost the right to it in the vicinty of Israel. If the Arab nations want Palestine to have a home land let them give it to them. Palestine is the group making war not Israel.

[William Terrell]

Jesus was a Jew because Mary was.

Was Jesus a member of Tribe Judah since Mary was?