Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Old Hoosier Apologizes to Libertarians
Thread from yesterday ^ | 3-26 | TOH

Posted on 03/26/2002 7:30:11 AM PST by The Old Hoosier

Yesterday, I got into an argument with some libertarians. I promised to humiliate myself if they could answer the following question:

If I want to sell myself into slavery in order to pay off debts, why should the government be able to prevent me? Why should I not have every right to enter into an indissoluble contract surrendering my freedom--temporarily or permanently--to someone else in exchange for some consideration?

I hereby admit that I was wrong, because ThomasJefferson agreed that the government should have no power to prohibit voluntary slavery--a step that I did not think any of them would want to take. I hereby eat crow. (Tpaine and Eagle Eye still haven't given direct answers, but I'll mention it here when they do, and eat more crow.)

The relevant part of the long argument we had is here. TJ agrees to voluntary slavery at 374.


TOPICS: Free Republic; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: indenturedservitude; libertarian; sasu
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 261-267 next last
To: Roscoe
The United States Supreme Court made clear that you can't hold slaves under the guise of contract or debt.

You mean the same United States Supreme Court that "made it clear" that the surgical destruction of unborn human beings was a "right"?

You mean that Supreme Court?

121 posted on 03/27/2002 10:35:17 AM PST by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: A CA Guy
The God of Abraham?
122 posted on 03/27/2002 10:35:52 AM PST by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 119 | View Replies]

To: OWK
UNITED STATES v. WONG KIM ARK. was decided March 25, 1898. The decision made it clear that you can't hold slaves under the guise of contract or debt.

The 13th Amendment stood, Libertarian doctrine once again failed. Our Constitution will outlive you, OWK.

123 posted on 03/27/2002 10:41:44 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 121 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Rand is dead.
124 posted on 03/27/2002 10:42:42 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: Roscoe
Reduced to muttering about dead philosophers, our hero takes his meager intellectual pop-gun and goes home.
125 posted on 03/27/2002 10:44:45 AM PST by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Well, I sign the contract voluntarily. We can call it indentured servitude instead. I think that the exact term is unimportant. I'm not going to accuse you of bringing back some kind of hereditary slaveowning.
126 posted on 03/27/2002 10:45:05 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: OWK
A poor Thai girl sells herself to a pimp to settle her family's debts. He brings her to this country to work off the money as a captive in a brothel. The kind of thing that is in the news all the time.

Would you hold that the pimp is acting within his rights? Should she be required to remain captive till the debt is settled? If she runs away, how much force should the pimp be able to use recapturing her?

127 posted on 03/27/2002 10:45:58 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 125 | View Replies]

To: Ken H
What you said is that I wouldn't be able to get the government, with the 13th amdt, to enforce my contract, and you're right. I inferred--perhaps wrongly--that that was your only objection.
128 posted on 03/27/2002 10:46:01 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Roscoe
The 13th Amendment stands, Libertarian doctrine once again fails.

You attribute a false doctrine to all 'libertarians'. - Knowingly. - Thats lying, roscoe.

129 posted on 03/27/2002 10:46:47 AM PST by tpaine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 118 | View Replies]

To: Khepera
So if you do indeed support Aquinas' then there is no way you can support the Libertarians.

Have you been reading this thread?

130 posted on 03/27/2002 10:47:24 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Roscoe
A poor Thai girl sells herself to a pimp to settle her family's debts.

Children may not morally enter into contract.

131 posted on 03/27/2002 10:47:40 AM PST by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: The Green Goblin
I understand your point, but Libertarians ARE moral liberals. Or to be more exact they are anarchist. They take their version of freedom to the extent that morality as we know it is abandoned and freedom has people doing wild things to the point of total anarchy!

Here in California where we had several million vote in a primary the Libertarians came out in full force to affect the outcome of the vote with there major 3000 votes.

They are a non-existent party in fact who are of no consequence. There biggest accomplishments in life as a party would be to probably be here on FR espousing the rights of everybody to use illegal drugs!

Until they can become more than the .003% of the vote they seem to be, they are hardly more than a joke pretending to defend warped positions in the name of Constitution.

There is hardly anything to respect about them. There only positions that seem rational I know of is there aim for a more limited government, lower taxes and reversing the laws that take innocent land owners property in drug seizures due to tenants behavior the landlord knew nothing of.

When I look at the Libertarian party beyond that there needs to be a warning label for the necessity of a tin-foiled hat to keep up with them.

132 posted on 03/27/2002 10:48:31 AM PST by A CA Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 101 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Some self-professed "libertarians" are fairly ignorant of their theology.
133 posted on 03/27/2002 10:48:57 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: Roscoe
ROE v. WADE was decided January 22, 1973. The decision made it clear that you can surgically end the life of a fetus growing inside you.

The penumbras stood, Conservative doctrine once again failed. Our Constitution will outlive you, Roscoe.

(For the record, I consider this another time that the Court was wrong.)

134 posted on 03/27/2002 10:48:58 AM PST by Equality 7-2521
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 123 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Don't Libertarians oppose age of consent laws?

A poor 18 year old Thai girl sells herself to a pimp to settle her family's debts. He brings her to this country to work off the money as a captive in a brothel. The kind of thing that is in the news all the time.

Would you hold that the pimp is acting within his rights? Should she be required to remain captive till the debt is settled? If she runs away, how much force should the pimp be able to use recapturing her?

135 posted on 03/27/2002 10:51:02 AM PST by Roscoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 131 | View Replies]

To: tpaine
Contracts that violate inalienable rights are not morally or legally enforceable. This position is self evident common sense

I agree that it's true. I don't know that it's self-evident, though. I arrive at it because of my beliefs about God and the dignity of man. I'm just wondering how a libertarian would arrive at it.

[And it's] not just a 'libertarian' stance.

I'm certainly not saying that.

136 posted on 03/27/2002 10:51:12 AM PST by The Old Hoosier
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: OWK
The God of the Trinity. God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. The one our country was founded on.
Not the one Mohamed molded in his image.
137 posted on 03/27/2002 10:51:27 AM PST by A CA Guy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 122 | View Replies]

To: The Old Hoosier
I guess I'm missing something. Are you saying you do not support the libertarians? I have not followed all of your posts since it is difficult enough to answer those addressed to me.
138 posted on 03/27/2002 10:51:48 AM PST by Khepera
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 130 | View Replies]

To: A CA Guy
The God of the Trinity. God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit. The one our country was founded on.

Isn't that the God of Abraham?

139 posted on 03/27/2002 10:52:28 AM PST by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 137 | View Replies]

To: Roscoe
Just as many of you moral majority people are off the wall jihadists. -- Look to your mirror roscoe.
140 posted on 03/27/2002 10:52:36 AM PST by tpaine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160 ... 261-267 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson