Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I am not a Christian, but would be very interested in knowing whether I am correct or not.
I suspect you're confusing the dogma of Immaculate Conception (made official in 1854) with that of virgin birth. Immaculate Conception is the dogma that Mary was unstained by Original Sin.
The virgin birth of Christ has been a central teaching of all barieties of Christianity for not quite 2,000 years. As far as I know, the Roman Catholic is the only church that accepts the doctrine of immaculate conception.
You might want to discuss the matter with St. Luke. He's long since dead, of course, but he wrote extensively on the topic, and his writings are widely available. Find youself a Bible, and open it to the section ("book") called "The Gospel according to St. Luke". Chapter 1 of that book addresses the matter quite definitively. Another book of the Bible, called "The Gospel according to St. Matthew", also addresses the matter in no uncertain terms. See chapter 1 thereof for details. Enjoy. Really. In addition to being the Word of God, the Bible is just full of really whacking good stories. :)
AB
I think you're confusing the dogma of the Virgin Birth with the dogma of the Immaculate Conception. Mary is, as she stated at Lourdes, the Immaculate Conception. The Virgin Birth of Our Lord is a basic tenet of the Church...it's in the Gospel and as such is "Gospel Truth".
This creature Spong is a disgrace to all Christians. Several years ago he said we should ignore the Pauline Epistles becaause Paul was obviously a latent homosexual lashing out at the homos of his day because of his own repressed sexuality. Now he goes directly against the Gospels themselves. Why the Episcopalians put up with this clown I'll never understand.
I can't respond to what the Catholic Church did in the 1800's, but I can tell you what the bible says. It plainly says that Mary had not "known" a man when she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.
Jesus was born sinless only because he was not fathered by man. Way back in the garden God prophesied to the serpent and said that his head would be bruised by the seed of the woman. Sin is inherited from the father not the mother.
Bishop Spong has spewed this diatribe for over 10 years that I can remember. When confronted by honest biblical scholars he becomes abusive and irrational.
It isn't hard to believe the virgin birth if you can believe the first words in the bible, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The rest is just icing on the cake.
Sorry but you are wrong. Christians have always held to the virgin birth of Christ. It has never been a debatable issue. I think that what you are referring to is the immaculate conception of Mary. Which was made an essential belief of the Roman Catholic Church in the 1800s.
Thank you for the question, although I wish to state up front that I am not the be-all end-all when it comes to all things Christian. I also want to make it clear that I am not an expert on Catholicism, so I can only express my views, and not church dogma.
When sin entered the world, man had a choice to make. God was the ruler of this world as long as man chose to follow His will. When man partook of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, he made a symbolic choice of Satan as his new leader. It was a sin to partake of that tree. The wages of sin were death.
God could have allowed man to be forever condemned to the wages of his sin. But God sought to redeem man. Only through the ultimate sacrifice could man's soul be purchased back from Satan. From the moment man/woman partook of the apple, Satan's law ruled this world. At the Cross, Jesus sacrificed His life to purchase our souls back.
The wages of sin was death. To keep man from having to die for all of eternity, Jesus died a perfect sacrifice for our imperfect lives. At that moment man again had a choice. He no longer had to face an eternal death. If he would accept God's leadership and avoid the forbidden fruit (sin), he could be assured of eternal life.
Jesus immaculate conception was important. It was important that we realize the Son of God came down to redeem us. Although He was born as a man, it was a seminal event. He was not just any man. Our fate did hang in the balance. Jesus had to face the very same temptations we do. Through all of it He prevailed. We were redeemed.
A part of the Holy Trinity died on that cross. A Being with the power to command the forces of nature, walk on water and raise men from the dead, submitted Himself to the ultimate humility at the cross. He died when He could have killed, by any means imaginable, those who ordered or facilitated His death.
Was it important that Jesus was an immaculate conception? Yes. Is it important that Satan demising the sacrifice, and it's significance? Yes. Satan will do anything in his power to discount what it was that Jesus did for us. His ability to confuse and destroy is all that he has left. And even that is only temporary now. Out of all the universe and other worlds, we were the only one's to give Satan a home. We were the only ones to chose his rule over God's. That rule has ended. But it's effects are still being felt.
He has no power over us as long as we accept Christ's perfect death as an atonement for our sins. But we must accept it. It cannot be forced on us. Redemption requires acceptance and a changed life on our part. God can NOT force salvation on us any more than he could force it on Adam and Eve. They had a choice. We have the SAME choice. Will we be perfect? No. Must we try? Yes. Will we earn our salvation? No. But we will have to try to live as God would have us live. He has paid the price for our sin, but he is not going to allow us to do everything bad that we can imagine, then save us to live that life in heaven. We should be conducting ourselves on this earth as if we were already in heaven. Repentance is necessary before salvation can be claimed. Adam and Eve made a grave mistake, but they were repentant. I have no doubt they tried to live good lives after their sin.
You refereed to the Catholic church as being the entity that placed significance on the immaculate conception of Christ. I believe you are referring to the deification of Mary, Jesus mother. My religion teaches that Mary was a good woman honored of God. It does not attribute God-like status to Mary, or impart a holy position for her. She was the woman honored above all others in that she carried the baby Jesus to term, delivered Him and raised Him. I believe that is all.
Obviously I respect Mary for her role. God obviously thought very highly of her. But if you'll take note, Jesus rebuked Mary at times saying He must be about His Father's business. If Mary had truly been deified, I don't think that would have been necessary.
God the Father, Jesus His Son and the Holy Spirit are one. They are joined. Things changed when Jesus took the form of a man. I am convinced that Jesus was forever changed, a constant reminder of Sin throughout the ages. His heavenly body was left behind. His human body took it's place.
Do I have all the answers? No. Am I absolutely sure what I have said here is right? No. It's about the best I can do until I get to ask the pointed questions from the only person who can explain it all to us. Realizing our limited concepts regarding life, death and one's soul, it's going to be hard for us to take it all in even when He explains it.
There, my neck is out. Whack away fellow Freepers. Grin.