Posted on 03/23/2002 3:18:00 PM PST by knighthawk
I am speaking under correction. Please do correct me if I don't have my facts right:
According to The Bible there is no country such as Israel, only Palestine. The Jew and the Arab, both stemming from Abraham is in fact half brothers. So why can they not live in harmony in a new country called Palestine?
Praise be to Allaah.
Your question may be answered by the following points:
There is no doubt that the Prophet of Allaah Ibraaheem (Abraham) was a pure monotheist, and he was not among the polytheists and disbelievers. Although the Jews are among the offspring of Ibraaheem (peace be upon him), they went against his way by associating partners in worship with Allaah and claiming that ‘Uzayr (Ezra) was a “son of God.” They said that God is miserly and that His hand is “tied up”, and they said, “He is poor and we are rich.” They also said that when God created the heavens and the earth in six days, He got tired, so He rested on the Sabbath day – exalted be Allaah far above all that they say about Him. They also likened the attributes of God to human attributes (anthropomorphism) and killed the Prophets, etc., etc.
Once this distinction and contrast is made clear, there can be no brotherhood between a monotheistic believer and a polytheistic disbeliever, as Allaah says in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): “Indeed there has been an excellent example for you in Ibraaheem and those with him, when they said to their people, ‘Verily, we are free from you and whatever you worship besides Allaah. We have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred forever, - until you believe in Allaah Alone,’ – except the saying of Ibraaheem to his father: ‘Verily, I will ask for forgiveness (from Allaah) for you, but I have no power to do anything for you before Allaah.’ Our Lord! In You (Alone) we put our trust, and to You (Alone) we turn in repentance, and to You (Alone) is (our) final Return, - … Certinaly, there has been in them an excellent example for you to follow, - for those who look forward to (the Meeting with) Allaah – (for the reward from Him) and the Last Day. And whosoever turn away, then verily, Allaah is Rich (Free of all wants), Worthy of all Praise.” [al-Mumtahinah 60:4,6]
Once this separation and enmity is clear, it is unavoidable that there will be hostility and disavowal and the resulting struggle against the enemies of Allaah. So long as the laws and wisdom of Allaah dictate that there should the distinction between believers and disbelievers, there has to be this clearly-stated enmity. There can be no change to the laws of Allaah.
There cannot be harmony between Jews – who are usurpers and aggressors, who have oppressed and persecuted others, and who are known for their treachery and corruption throughout the world, historically and in the present age – and the purely monotheistic Muslim owners of the land, whose menfolk the Jews have killed, and imprisoned their sons, and destroyed their homes, and taken possession of their lands by force, and prevented them from earning a proper living, and carried out chemical and radiational experiments on their prisoners, and taken organs from them for transplant into Jewish patients… and all other kinds of persecutions and atrocities.
In addition to this, the Jews are people of treachery and betrayal; it is not possible to trust them at all. Their current conduct bears this out: is there any treaty or agreement signed by them that they have actually fulfilled? This is no big surprise for the Muslims, who know what Allaah has said in His Book about the Jews (interpretation of the meaning): “Is it not (the case) that every time they make a covenant, some party among them throws it aside? Nay! The truth is most of them believe not.” [al-Baqarah 2:100].
Moreover, if the Muslims agreed to live in peace with the Jews, who would be in charge? One of the basic principles of Islam is that Islam should prevail, not be prevailed over. One of the conditions for People of the Book (Jews and Christians) living with Muslims in a Muslim country is that they should live under certain conditions (shuroot ahl al-dhimmah) in return for the security and protection afforded them by the Muslims. One of the most important of these conditions is that they should not openly display their shirk and kufr (polytheistic disbelief) in the Muslim lands, whether by word or deed.
As the Muslims and Jews are enemies residing in opposing religious and doctrinal camps, it is not possible for them to be brought together unless one is made to submit to the other by force. Indeed, the Jews now are not allowing the Muslims to remain in their homes, even if there was no provocative action on the part of the Muslims; they are seizing the Muslims’ property by force, building their settlements on the Muslims’ lands and expelling the Muslims by any means. They have expelled millions to the neighbouring countries, which have accommodated them in the so-called Palestinian refugee camps.
Finally, although the Muslims nowadays are in a position of weakness and humiliation – because they have turned away from their religion – and are unable to fight the Jews, take back their stolen lands and impose the rule of Islamic sharee’ah in Palestine, this does not mean that this will always be the case until the end of the world. Things have to change, and one of the indications of this is the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who informed us of some things that are to happen in the future. He was supported by Revelation from his Lord; he did not speak of his own whims and desires, but of that which was revealed to him. He said:
“You will fight the Jews and will prevail over them, so that a rock will say, ‘O Muslim! There is Jew behind me, kill him!’” (Reported by Muslim, 2921; al-Bukhaari, 2926).
According to a report narrated by Muslim from Abu Hurayrah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Hour [the Day of Judgement] will not begin until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. A Jew will hide behind a rock or a tree, and the rock or tree will say, ‘O Muslim, O slave of Allaah! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!’ – except for the gharqad (box thorn), for it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (Reported by Muslim, 2922).
It comes in waves through out history. The West has had to fight them off several times. They have had to expand in different directions, to the South and the East. The difference now is that Christianity has weakened in the West. Their religion states that they will be in control and be wealthy because they follow Allah. We in the West have the money and the power and thus a great resentment. They should be the ones being blessed and are not. They see our moral decline and are even more enraged. Their religion says to destroy us and they think they can finally do it. No matter what happens now if they are not able to destroy us yet they will waite a hundred years send more muslims to live in our countries multiply and try and try again until they win unless something is done.
I do know why. Things deteriorated when the state hijacked the church after Constantine.
Wherever the church has not been an established, state church, its history has been relatively honorable. Wherever the church has been an established, state church, you will inevitably find something dishonorable in its history.
There is nothing in the N.T. that presumes or dictates that there be established state churches. Indeed, the premise seems to be that the state is hostile toward the church, which it often has been. The expectation in the N.T. is that Christians will be good, productive, law-abiding citizens, and if they happen to be called to government service, that they will conduct themselves justly and honorably, but that the church as an institution and the state as an institution will have no formal relationship with one another.
In contrast, the Quran does indeed expect a fusion of mosque and state, and considers anything less than the establishment of Islam as the official state religion to be unacceptable. The Quran also makes it very clear that the employment of any means, including dishonesty, theft, slavery, and murder, are justifiable means for the end of advancing Islam.
True, some people who have called themselves "Christians" have conducted themselves just as badly at times in the past. If you study the history carefully, you will find in almost every case that an established state church was involved, and that the people behaving badly either had political/economic motives for doing so, or were ignorant dupes manipulated and misled by those who had such motives.
There is nothing INHERENT in the Christian faith that would lead a believer to engage in such evil, dishonorable conduct. There is very much something inherent in the establishment of a state religion of ANY variety that would lead the adherants of that religion to evil conduct that is actually in disobedience of the teachings of that religion. Except in the case of Islam, the bad behavior isn't even forbidden, but rather encouraged.
I will settle for the Blarney myself.
Nothing else works maybe it is time for a little truth, sometimes that is a very harsh thing to take and not an insult. It is an insult to continue to coddle them. We step on eggshells not to insult them they think we are weak. They are fed lies daily, it is time to tell them they are being lied to. They won't like. They will hate us (they do any way), but at least we will have started to try.
You know how dysfunctional the crowd is when someone claims both sides do it.
A denial
a denial
a denial
"To this day the Arabs worship stones, and so do all the followers of Muhammad...
"Of all the places which Muslims are enjoined to visit in their pilgrimage, or Hajj, only one is intimately connected with the Prophet; all the other places, and all the sacrifices performed at them, derive from the age when Arabs worshiped stones."
Payne has some interesting things to say about jihad as well, and it is far removed from the apologia we've been getting from the Muslim spokespeople.
There are a lot of things not being told and lies being told to people. It would be politically, religously and culturally incorrect.
Obviously you do not comprehend it and like to stir things up...not a good idea!
This is the entire problem. Islam as a religious philosophy hasn't quite learned how to play well with others. In the West there are steps toward this, but it's almost too little too late to spread towards the Middle East. Sad to say, but it'll take a trauma on the order of say the Bablyonian Exile or the Diaspora to reform the religion.
A class act. I need to be able to keep my sense of humor on these threads.
I maintain that you are pushing for a moral equivalency. Yes, the OT includes warfare, and even the extermination of the Amalekites.
But nowhere are Christians or Jews commanded to take the whole world by force and convert or "protect" the infidels. Nowhere can we justify any aggression or marching around cities, because the commands were very specific as to location and time.
The contrast remains. When Christians behave badly, it is in spite of the Bible. When Muslims behave badly, it is because of the koran.
The Muslims - mostly Arabs - who strictly follow the koran are savages.
The religion ought to be trashed, because it is the source of intolerance, suffering, torture, revolution, oppression, dictatorships, kidnappings, and other unpleasantries around the world. Islam needs to go the way of Kali worship, Aztec paganism, and canabalism. The rest of the world's religions get along much better.
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