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Rabbi Ordered To Stop Home Prayer
MyCFNow ^
Posted on 03/21/2002 3:18:59 AM PST by chance33_98
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Hmmmmm....Zoning versus the constitution versus state's rights, etc and so on :)
To: *gov_watch;*Constitution list;*BillofRights
Bump for discussion
To: chance33_98
Wonder if the same ordnance would apply to "other" groups meeting in their homes... groups who might be offended by our flag.
3
posted on
03/21/2002 3:28:04 AM PST
by
tutstar
To: chance33_98
Under the current zoning law, operating a synagogue or any function related to synagogue or church services is not a permitted use in residential zoned area, Local 6 News reported. However, Konikov believed the ordinance violated his religious rights. Please note: Orthodox Jews are forbidden to travel on the Sabbath. They are permitted only to walk a short distance. So this zoning law essentially makes it impossible for Orthodox Jews to live or to wosrhip in this area.
It also would forbid Christian prayer groups to meet in home for bible study, and for prayer. But at least Christians could meet elsewhere. Orthodox Jews could not.
4
posted on
03/21/2002 3:28:28 AM PST
by
LadyDoc
To: wafflehouse
bump for later
Comment #6 Removed by Moderator
Comment #7 Removed by Moderator
To: chance33_98
It disturbs the people sleeping in the Crack house across the street.
8
posted on
03/21/2002 3:45:37 AM PST
by
AppyPappy
To: LadyDoc
Please note: Orthodox Jews are forbidden to travel on the Sabbath. They are permitted only to walk a short distance. So this zoning law essentially makes it impossible for Orthodox Jews to live or to wosrhip in this area.
It also would forbid Christian prayer groups to meet in home for bible study, and for prayer. But at least Christians could meet elsewhere. Orthodox Jews could not.Excellent points.
To: wafflehouse
As basically abhorrent I find this case to be (how dare they try to regulate prayer in a persons home!), I have the feeling that I'm not getting the whole story. Are the police in Orange county going door to door... : knock, knock, knock, ... "Good afternoon, are you violating any local zoning statutes that we should know about?" ... I don't see it happening this way so something must be getting the systems attention.
10
posted on
03/21/2002 3:49:06 AM PST
by
tcostell
To: tcostell
so something must be getting the systems attention.
Probably a bunch of orthodox jews wandering the streets on a regular basis. That would get my attention :)
To: chance33_98
It's a horrible rule, but is it illegal? It seems municipalities have pretty wide lattitude when it comes to zoning.
To: chance33_98; homeschool mama; Brad's Gramma
My uncle was talking about these zoning laws 20 years ago, warning me, etc. I thought he was off his rocker. "Yeah right, you paranoid freak." (I was a stupid teenager back then). Looks like he was right.
This is pretty scary because our churches always have get togethers at someone's home for singing, prayers and eating.
To: FloridaCracker
I can't "go figure" anymore. This country is so far off track, I don't think it's possible to turn it around. Leave the man alone, unless his services interfere with the neigbors. And I mean REALLY interfere, not just give some busyody something to do. What happened to the "Man's house is his Castle" concept? I guess there's no real crime in Orange County, so the cops and judges have to resort to this.
To: LadyDoc
Please note: Orthodox Jews are forbidden to travel on the Sabbath. In other words Orthodox law commands that they gather nearby to pray.
Since satisfying the Muslim command to pray at certain times resulted in setting aside specific prayer rooms in community schools, why shouldn't a few community ordinances be bent to satisfy an Orthodox command, too?
15
posted on
03/21/2002 4:03:20 AM PST
by
syriacus
To: chance33_98
I have this same situation in my neighborhood. Never gave it much thought, other than to notice that there are many more Orthodox Jews living within walking distance of me than I would have guessed. Haven't the faintest idea what the local zoning laws say on the subject.
To: LadyDoc
Undoubtedly it was originally written for the purpose of discouraging Orthodox Jews from moving into the area.
They probably also have ordinances concerning overnight camping on the streets. Ostensibly written for the purpose of separating permanent and temporary residential activities, their real purpose was to keep out the Gypsies.
Why am I not surprised this part of California has such laws?
17
posted on
03/21/2002 4:12:15 AM PST
by
muawiyah
To: chance33_98
"Under the current zoning law, operating a synagogue or any function related to synagogue or church services is not a permitted use in residential zoned area, Local 6 News reported."
I smell a Lawsuit! Unless I am mistaken it is a pretty common practice for Jewish people to hold prayer meetings/religious services in private homes of their members. I think this dates back to the time of the exile. Sounds like the State is trying to interfere with the practice of religion. Like maybe separation of Church and State is being violated here?
To: chance33_98
Once more we have a condition in the mind of public servants that they get to stomp all over the RIGHT of people to use their property as they wish.
The laws put in place by a board or trust or governmental agency or entity DO NOT get to run over your rights under the constitution. As I understand titles and dees, unless you agree on your title or deed to land as to the specific use of it it is yours to do with as you please. This is why I detets and do not obey PERMITS for anything on my property. To say that I have to have a permit to do or accomplish ANY thing on my property is DEPRIVATION of my right to do with my property as I see fit. This includes any activity on it as well.
There are many who then tell me that it is a protection for me and my neighbors. I laugh at them. I am to be responsible. Period dot. the law on that is clear. If I build something and it causes harm, I am in trouble for it and responsible for it. I do not need to be told that I may not do it because it MAY harm someone. That is deprivation of my right to my property unless I pay their blackmail fee. I put up a shed I have to both seek permission and pay their blackmail fee. I will not. I will also have over however many I please as long as I can safely fit them on my property for what ever reason I wish as long as I do no harm to others or raise a ruckus.
If this Rabbi bends to their wishes, it is nothing more than playing into the hands of the love-to-control-your-life-freaks.
To: muawiyah
Undoubtedly it was originally written for the purpose of discouraging Orthodox Jews from moving into the area.Agreed. This law is more onerous on the Orthodox Jews since they do not drive on the Sabbath. I seem to recall something being carved in stone about keeping the Sabbath holy. The argument to be made would consist of your own as well as the disproportionate impact on this particular group, restriction of free exercise of religion, and absence of less burdensome alternatives, compelling government interest or even a rational basis for this law.
No doubt some neighbor(s) is forcing the government to crack down.
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