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Afghan commanders: Operation Anaconda a failure
AP via canoe.ca ^ | March 17, 2002

Posted on 03/17/2002 3:23:06 AM PST by Clive

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Let us hope that we don't start talking about kill ratios and lights at the end of tunnels, or "hearts and minds".

Let us keep out eye on the ball.

We are now in a war against indigenous irregulars in territory that favours the indigenous irregulars.

We can send in our own indigenous forces to apply the kind of force that they are expert at projecting and back them up with the kind of force that we are expert at applying.

Success by either side will only be realized when the other side quits.

Our soldiers jhave read Sun Tzu and Clausewitz. The media have not except to extract cute sayings, usually out of context.

1 posted on 03/17/2002 3:23:06 AM PST by Clive
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To: Travis McGee
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2 posted on 03/17/2002 3:23:53 AM PST by Clive
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
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3 posted on 03/17/2002 3:27:24 AM PST by Clive
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To: Clive
Afghan commanders who failed to prevent, as a blocking force.

Yes, American's have a lot to learn about this elusive enemy we call Afghan commanders for it is they who, through their internetwork of tribal, religious and family relations that do not take seriously their role. Now that American's know these same Afghan commanders, who are critical of us, are in fact loyal only to themselves and that they can not be counted on to execute their missions or even fight if it requires dying....

Yes, American is prepared to fight this type of war without the support of her "loyal to who" Afghan commanders, i.e., allies.

4 posted on 03/17/2002 3:54:28 AM PST by Jumper
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To: Clive
This "body count" thing is getting obnoxious. Do not listen to these "Afghan commanders". If we had listened to them during the entirety of this operation, we'd be in deep s**t. We need to take this operation one step at a time and let the military handle it... not these Afghan dolts, nor the press, nor the politicians.
5 posted on 03/17/2002 4:01:43 AM PST by grimalkin
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To: Clive
Aren't these the same Afghan commanders that originally estimated the force holed up there to be between 3,000 and 4,500? Aren't these the same Afghan commanders who were guaranteeing a cease fire mid-battle so that the Al Quaeda could either join their side or put down their guns and LEAVE?
6 posted on 03/17/2002 4:02:19 AM PST by finnsheep
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To: Clive
Bombs from B-52s won't defeat al-Qaida or the Taliban," he said.

Translation: "These bombs so devastate the area that there is nothing left for the Afghanis to loot, even the clothing on the El Quaeda terrorists is burned to pieces of charred cloth".

7 posted on 03/17/2002 4:10:27 AM PST by scouse
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To: Clive
The problem comes because America is not in control of this war and who in the hell has ever heard of a time out called during a war? When we get them on the run and we had them on the run they were allowed to walk away safe and secure and regroup to fight another day.How much more stupid can we get.The Rule of War is like the Rule of Law.It changes according to the situation!
8 posted on 03/17/2002 4:23:36 AM PST by gunnedah
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To: Clive
The problem comes because America is not in control of this war and who in the hell has ever heard of a time out called during a war? When we get them on the run we had them on the run they were allowed to walk away sage and secure and regroup to fight another day.How much more stupid can we get.The Rule of War is like the Rule of Law.It changes according to the situation!
9 posted on 03/17/2002 4:24:53 AM PST by gunnedah
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: Clive
"It took only 20 terrorists to kill 3,000 of the world's citizens in the World Trade Towers. We've killed hundreds and that means we've saved hundreds of thousands of lives. This is a great success."

This is purely a PR statement that doesn't even come close to being true. For it to be true, this idiot would be assuming that *every one* of the alledged (very alledged) killed were trained to fly commercial jets into thousands of buildings in the US *just as occupied* as the WTC towers were *and* that the US would somehow allow this to happen thousands of times. Preposterous.

"Americans don't listen to anyone," said Cmdr. Abdul Wali Zardran.

These are the guys I would be listening to. As much as many people here in the US and even on FR like to dismiss the enemy or Arabs in general as being a bunch of idiot ragheads with AK-47s, the truth is that some of them know a thing or two about fighting -- learned from lots of personal experience. I wouldn't dismiss what they say and I *certainly* would take their opinion over the REMF I first quoted.

I don't know how much we spent on this operation, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap in lives or resources. According to the Afgans we've got on our side, they found some 30-odd bodies...lets double that, no, let's *triple* that: 100 dead. Over 300 got away, if not more, not to mention the uncertainty over how many were there in the first place. *Plus* the fact that the enemy escaped to other countries.

Sounds like a Vietnam definition of 'victory' to me. (No offense to our vets who fought there. You know what I'm talking about.)

Tuor

11 posted on 03/17/2002 4:43:53 AM PST by Tuor
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To: Clive
Gee, I thought these "afgan commanders" were the same ones who have lived in the biggest failed state in the world, run by the most oppressive regime ever.

Must be mistaken. But I can't help but wonder where these "afgan commanders" were when the Taliban, who lasted all of 30 days, were running their pile of rubble, called laughingly, a country.

hmmm

12 posted on 03/17/2002 4:48:47 AM PST by snooker
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To: Tuor
Sounds like a Vietnam definition of 'victory' to me. (No offense to our vets who fought there. You know what I'm talking about.)

I do take offense, but realize you do not know what you are talking about.

13 posted on 03/17/2002 4:54:35 AM PST by beekeeper
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To: Tuor
These are the guys I would be listening to. As much as many people here in the US and even on FR like to dismiss the enemy or Arabs in general as being a bunch of idiot ragheads with AK-47s, the truth is that some of them know a thing or two about fighting -- learned from lots of personal experience.

Maybe SO maybe NOT

They are also a bunch of self serving egos who don't want to admit the USA had to kick the Tallywackers butt for them otherwise they would have been running the country NOT the Tallywackers. They have to save face

But time will tell
14 posted on 03/17/2002 4:55:50 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Clive
Agreed. You can bet that those Battalion Commanders are already starting to feel the pressure to produce higher numbers.

If the "Endstate" for this these operations becomes high "Kill-ratios", you can thank the press and GW's enemies in Congress for their constant sniffling about lack of progress.

15 posted on 03/17/2002 4:59:21 AM PST by M.K. Borders
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To: gunnedah;Snow Bunny;B4Ranch;chesty_puller
America fought in another war, in a small far off nation where we tied both hands behind our back by allowing their national civilian leadership, their national military leadership, and in many cases their local civilian and military leaderships' permission to conduct the war.

The results of waging that type of war still reverberate in the American psyche and perhaps will for some time to come.

I pray we are not heading down that same tried and tired path again. We can not engage an enemy bent upon "our destruction" by their rules. GW said we would pick the time and the manner of engagement. I hope he, Rummy, and our political leadership which dictates Military policy fully understand that and leave the conduct of WAR up to the professionals whose sole mission should be to WIN.

I am not suggesting we aren't, but articles such as this certainly give this old vet cause for concern.

16 posted on 03/17/2002 5:01:28 AM PST by ImpBill
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To: Clive
Afghans say Operation Anaconda was not a rousing success
http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/031602dnintafghananaconda.bc129.html
17 posted on 03/17/2002 5:08:20 AM PST by MeekOneGOP
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To: beekeeper
I do take offense, but realize you do not know what you are talking about.

Then I'll explain it to you.

The Press and Our Government likes to declare Victory at the drop of a hat. Otherwise, the Good People of our Beloved Country might get the sneaking suspicion that All Was Not Well in the War Zone, and hence might demand an accounting from the Powers That Be.

I was certainly not talking about the effort or actual victories you and your pals pulled off: I'm not talking about the reality of things, but the perception of them given by the media and the PR-types in the military.

But I guess I don't know what I'm talking about. There was no propaganda during Vietnam. Nevermind.

Tuor

18 posted on 03/17/2002 5:08:47 AM PST by Tuor
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To: Jumper
Well said. I can't cite the article, but my wife advised me that the infamous Afghan troops who were supposed to lead our forces to the very rugged and complex cave network backed out at the last minute, purportedly because they thought there might be civilians in the area.

When I was in the military, we had a name for leaders such as these, but I can't repeat it on this site.

If our courageous military personnel were only in Afghanistan to support the Afghans in the fight against Al Quieda, I'd pull them out in a New York minute. Our forces are in Afghanistan to rout and destroy terrorists and it appears that at least some Afghan military "leaders" don't share that goal. If they don't want to be part of the solution, then they should move out of the way and keep their Monday morning quarterbacking to themselves, IMHO.

19 posted on 03/17/2002 5:09:44 AM PST by EODGUY
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To: Clive
Doesn't this remind you of the stories that came out when the Russians tried to take Afghanistan? Same logistical problems, same everything.
20 posted on 03/17/2002 5:10:35 AM PST by dixie sass
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