Does that piece look like it came from 
Maybe something like 
Why not just remove us conspiracy theorists completely by providing something conclusive to a normal person.
Posted on 03/10/2002 9:55:18 PM PST by CalConservative
I receive a lot of strange information from a wide variety of sources. Some of it is intriguing. Some of it is flat-out weird. I try (and frequently fail) to temporarily set aside my own personal prejudices to objectively as possible consider the merits of both the intriguing and weird.
Recently, an interesting French website has been asking questions about the crash of American Airlines Flight 77, which reportedly crashed into the Pentagon on Sept. 11.
The conventional wisdom has been inculcated into us that there were four terrorist hijacked airplanes that tragic day. But there are refutations for each of the official scenarios floating around. The conspiracy theory industry hasn't been this jazzed since the JFK assassination.
However, in the shadow of the creative writing, multi-phased propaganda and bovine excrement, there are several questions that at least should be asked and answered.
The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the State.
– Dr. Joseph M. Goebbels
The French website has pictures of the Pentagon from Sept. 11. I looked at the pictures shown and, frankly, (despite my visceral reluctance to buy into another conspiracy) can't answer the questions raised. Maybe our readers can? Click on the French link and let us know what you think. I have also viewed the MSNBC footage over two dozen times and I still can't see the plane. Can you?
1. The first satellite image shows the section of the building that was hit by the Boeing. In the image, the second ring of the building is also visible. It is clear that the aircraft only hit the first ring. The four interior rings remain intact. They were only fire-damaged after the initial explosion.
How can a Boeing 757-200 – weighing nearly 100 tons and traveling at a minimum speed of 250 miles an hour – only have damaged the outside of the Pentagon?
2. The next two photographs show the building just after the attack. The aircraft apparently only hit the ground floor. The four upper floors collapsed toward 10:10 am. The building is 78 feet high.
How can a plane 44.7 feet high, over 155 feet long, with a wingspan of almost 125 feet and a cockpit almost 12 feet high, crash into just the ground floor of this building?
3. Look at the photograph of the lawn in front of the damaged building.
Where is the debris? Any debris! Did it all disintegrate on contact?
4. There are photographs, which show representations of a Boeing 757-200 superimposed on the section of the building that was hit.
What happened to the wings of the aircraft? Why isn't there any wing damage?
5. One journalist asked: "Is there anything left of the aircraft at all?" At a press conference the day after the tragedy, Arlington County Fire Chief Ed Plaugher said, "First of all, the question about the aircraft, there are some small pieces of aircraft visible from the interior during this fire-fighting operation. I'm talking about, but not large sections."
The follow-up question asked, "In other words, there's no fuselage sections and that sort of thing?" Plaugher replied, "You know, I'd rather not comment on that. We have a lot of eyewitnesses that can give you better information about what actually happened with the aircraft as it approached. So we don't know. I don't know."
Wait a minute! Time after time (Oklahoma City bombing, TWA Flight 800, Flight 93 et al.) we are told not to depend on eyewitnesses?
When asked by a journalist: "Where is the jet fuel?" The chief responded, "We have what we believe is a puddle right there that the … what we believe is to be the nose of the aircraft."
Notwithstanding the collective myopia in not being able to see what we are being told, there are more questions.
One pilot wrote, "I flew the Boeing 747 jumbo jet, but not this 757 … from what I see (or don't see) looking at these pictures, it's hard to pick out aircraft parts:
Whatever inexplicable anomalies exist, the passengers on Flight 77 died that tragic day. Barbara Olson called her husband from Flight 77 and told him about the hijacking in progress. There was most certainly an American Airlines Flight 77 with real people on board, and families in grief.
What did happen to the plane? Where is it?
(this is a recording........) ;-)
How can a plane 44.7 feet high...
Somehow I doubt the terrorists would feel the need to lower the gear before crashing into the Pentagon.
The Pentagon's well-manicured lawn is very large. At the time the pictures were taken, there was a major fire going on, and photographers were presumably not allowed close to the impact area - hence taking photos of mostly pristine (except for a few widely-splattered bits of debris) lawn.
And why, pray tell, would someone take a picture of that particular plane in flight? Even a coincidental photo would most likely show little more than a dot. There were hundreds (if not thousands) of planes in flight at that time - why don't we have photos of them? perhaps 'cuz there's no point?
I looked at all the pictures at that site: they ALL are completely consistent with the standard theory (big passenger plane hit Pentagon). All the surrounding text is an obvious stretch at creating FUD; even the top-down photo with impact directions is plainly mis-drawn.
This is a really pathetic attempt to claim a conspiracy. There's lots of photographic proof, and it all makes sense...including the parking lot video.
There are plenty of real conspiracies to worry about; why waste your time inventing one where it obviously does not exist?
Does that piece look like it came from
Maybe something like
Why not just remove us conspiracy theorists completely by providing something conclusive to a normal person.
Why don't you go away? Isn't it obvious from the lack of interest from even the most gullible tinfoil hat wearing FReepers, that this nutcase theory isn't making it?
The fact of the matter is that "normal" people don't need convincing. The presence of hundreds of spontaneous eyewitnesses, mountains of evidence, and actual personal stories on these threads trumps whatever psychotic ranting you may manage to excrete onto the screen.
-Where are the people from flight 77?
-How was it that the plane was tracked on radar into DC and then disappeared?
-There are hundreds of eyewitness reports that went out into the media, specifically radio, as the event occurred. How did that happen?
-How did a truck bomb manage to damage the inner rings of the Pentagon, but not leave a crater?
-Are the people who have given their own eyewitness reports on threads right here liars?
-How did the light poles get knocked down?
-Why is there not one person who was in the area at the time who says that they did not hear or see a plane at the time of the crash?
And finally:
-Why fake a plane crash to cover up a truck bomb?
Now, quit running away and answer the questions.
However, from the length of this thread, it looks like many others have yet to analyze the frames the same way, especially that the site is now down.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." -- Charles Babbage
Likewise, I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could view the Pentagon crash site and ask "where's the plane?"
What I see in that picture is perfectly consistent with the standard theory: the heavily-fueled plane made a belly-flop wheels-up landing right in front of the building, slid into the first floor, exploded, most pieces continued forward thru the first ring, and the center of the structure above the impact area collapsed (with obvious wing-impact damage wider on the first floor where the structural integrity of the floors above managed to stay intact).
All the pictures presented by you and the conspiracy theorists make perfect sense in the standard theory. To fake a crash to that degree & damage would require EXTENSIVE and OBVIOUS preparations.
This is not a movie. Occam's Razor holds.
Does that piece look like it came from [picture of Boeing airliner].
Yes, in fact it does. It is mostly unpainted (unlike the white plane you show next), and painted markings show silver/white/red-bounded markings, not white/blue/white/red/white (as on your poorly chosen example).
Again, the more evidence you show the more convinced I'm right.
Why not just remove us conspiracy theorists completely by providing something conclusive to a normal person.
You have all the photos. They are plainly conclusive. If you refuse to accept them, 'tis not my problem that you are delusional enough to reject plain reality in favor of bizzare ideas.
Ladies and gentleman, without further comment, I give you the musings of demdesur:
I bet Barbara Olson is alive in some shadow government office (I fully realize how stupid this sounds). Ted was totally unconvincing after her death and is now hanging out with some 25 year old doll... not exactly what you would expect. As for the rest of the listed passengers... I'd have to go through each one individually but this question is the common sense achilles heal of saying a plane didn't hit the Pentagon. Having said that I still think no plane hit the Pentagon and the Olson stuff was all a good show.
*****
This is a square demolition. A plane would have messed up the grass directly in front of the building which it did not (not open for discussion). A plane would have gone through 3 rings of the building which MSNBC just reported... look at the picture below and previous pictures and you'll see the demolition only took out the first ring.
*****
This obviously is a huge intel operation (hence random military witnesses and some non-military witnesses... none that saw both plane and explosion... many that saw one or the other) and they could get away with it fine if they just had more explosives to the left of the building to avoid the straight left wall which gives it away. If the left wall wasn't perfectly straight I would address the passengers but I don't even need to go there (you explain the left straight wall and I'll look into the passenger list.
FWIW, I think the Mossad is blackmailing the US with stuff Deutch downloaded to his personal computer and the roque elements in the DIA/CIA and/or Mossad did the WTC and the Pentagon had a backup plan to avoid being framed... or to remove itself as a suspect (also to save its "allies" and credibility in the world)... they blew up the demolitions (probably plan z) and didn't do a good enough job with the demolotions... oh, another thing that gives it away is the Pentagon has security cameras all over the damn place!!! Duh.
This theory is not comforting but it is the only thing I can come up with that is realistic. Having said that I'm heading for comfort and leaving this thread. Regardless, Bush is a military/oil industrial complex whore!
*****
The ironic part is I don't think the demolition was part of the planned attacks. I think the Pentagon was in self defense mode (as illogical as that sounds) so some entity is powerful enough to make the Pentagon go to contingency rope-a-dope deflection plan. The only entity that is powerful enough to do that is the Mossad... so although you think US shadow government/intel types might track me down and get rid of me the real people I'm afraid of are the same ones Bush is afraid of. So I'm hoping Bush, Cheney & Powell get out of their bedwetting mode and start addressing the real terror issue, the Israeli blackmailing of the US government rather than squeezing (and scaring the hell out of) the American people. Obviously, Bush et. all have a lot of skeletons in their closets (along with the country) or the blackmail wouldn't have worked.
This is all high level, shadow government, high levels of DIA, CIA, FBI, State Dept. and Mossad -hit. Also, there are millions of people (maybe a billion) that don't think Bin Laden did the WTC (and hundreds of quality web sites pointing out inaccurcies similar to the things I have pointed out... and they are growing really fast). I don't think the Mossad, Mossad operatives and "blackmailed" Americans in the US plan to assasinate a billion people and close the internet! And I don't think Bush and crowd are evil (although I haven't ruled it out!)... I just think they are in a horrible predicament... probably why W. was crying the other day. The bottom line is, in the information world we live in today the truth is going to come out soon enough (look at TWA 800) so it's best to get everything in the open and just deal with it the best you can and try to encourage and nurture transparency instead of clueless cold war espionage tactics in a POST cold war world (hint, it doesn't work any more). My two cents. Don't shoot me.
*****
Actually, that is one theory above. Another is the Kissinger, Brezinski, Bush Sr., Cheney, Scowcroft crowd seemed to be surprisingly non-plussed by the whole thing. The timing is extremely suspicious... and the Bush admin's policy directions seemed to be proactive vs. reactive which is a bit disturbing. Who knows, I don't but I refuse to have my freedom of speech taken away by lying scoundrels saying trust us, you don't need the facts and, by the way, shut the hell up or we will kill you. -uck that.
*****
Out on a limb... might as well muse more. Robert Byrd moved I think 6,000 CIA folks out to W. Virginia a few years ago... does any one know where (what city) they moved to? Plane looks like it would have landed in W. Virginia if it if fact didn't take out that left wall (which is obvious to me). Where that leads you after that is dicey to say the least.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.