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To: winstonchurchill; the_doc; CCWoody; RnMomof7
"Unfortunately, he lived in a time when the Calvinist construct was much more widely held than it is today. I like to think that, were he alive today, he would be a more enlightened Biblical scholar in those few areas where his preaching was tainted with the construct."

Oh, baloney!

Mid-19th century England was characterized by Wesleyan/Arminianism and the revivalism of Finney much more than any "Calvinist construct". C.H. Spurgeon understood the prevailing theological climate of his day and continually attempted to lead men back to the "doctrines of grace" that had been so much neglected and abandoned.

The fact that what we share here (The free offer of the Gospel to all) is the same as that shared by Spurgeon is of little consequence to you, is it? Never mind refuting what we actually believe, it is soooo much easier to make up some "construct" in your mind and then set out to destroy it.

C.H. Spurgeon wasn't called the "last of the Puritans" for nothing. If he was preaching today (and wouldn't that be a hoot!), he would still be proclaiming "...there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else."

169 posted on 02/27/2002 8:52:01 AM PST by Jerry_M
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To: Jerry_M; winstonchurchill; ward smythe; CCWoody; RnMomof7; forthedeclaration
, it is soooo much easier to make up some "construct" in your mind and then set out to destroy it.

Jerry, you keep saying this at different moments. Why is it that everyone else in the entire world defines calvinism in terms of that fatalistic tulip formula EXCEPT for you folks that isn't calvinism.

Would you please, finally, write down the acronym and give a nice succinct definition of each of the points so we do know in one package what you do believe about tulip?

181 posted on 02/27/2002 9:25:28 AM PST by xzins
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To: Jerry_M
The fact that what we share here (The free offer of the Gospel to all)...

To further quote you: "Oh, baloney." The Calvinist construct is so brutal, so cold-hearted, so contrary to a real offer of salvation to all that its modern-day defenders (blessedly few) are reduced to highjacking phrases and turning them into half-truths and then claiming that they are being misquoted or misunderstood when the logical premise is made clear.

The modern day defender of the construct says "we offer the Gospel to all" but then conveniently 'forgets' to add, "But it doesn't really matter since who is going to be saved and who is to be sent to hell was determined by our god 'before the foundation of the world.'" So, it's an "offer" (get it?) but not everyone can accept. Isn't that clever? Wow. And that's supposed to be the Calvinist's version of the "Good News".

Now just how is that "Good News" to one of the little children the Calvinists so proundly declare were damned to hell from the foundation of the world? Nope, you can keep your little "Good News" (good only for your little church group) and your proud damnation of little children and innocent babies and your little god (too small to be confused with the real God). I will take Jesus and His true offer of salvation, capable of being accepted by anyone -- anyone! -- who will believe in Him.

At least be honest enough to admit that, where the Bible teaches Christ died for all the ungodly, the construct teaches He only died for your little group and all others are damned without hope.

You know, there are many areas where I am willing to live and let live in Christian doctrine, but the true availability of salvation in Christ to everyone who believes is one I cannot compromise. And I personally think that telling people that Christ only died for some is pretty dangerous ground. I personally would not want to hear Christ say, "You told them what?"

182 posted on 02/27/2002 9:29:54 AM PST by winstonchurchill
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