Posted on 02/24/2002 3:30:15 PM PST by naine
Aided by evidence from mural inscriptions in temples, items in museums and most Importantly verses from the Holy Quran, the researcher Bassam Al Shama' gave proof that the Jews were not existent in Egypt in the age of Pharaonic dynasties and that Prophet Joseph came to Egypt when it was under the reign of the Greek. He also cast doubt on the assumption that the Pharaoh who stood in the face of Moses was neither Ramsis 11 nor his son Nebtah.
Al Shama' has in fact caused a row by his research which goes against previous historic studies, but he has provided proof which could be still refuted by specialists. However irrespective of how far his theory might be right, his well-intentions drove him to set aside the Western viewpoint affected by the ideas of Jewish researchers.
Bassam told an Arabic magazine that all through his years of study of archaeology and work as a tour guide he found that the majority of tourists and those interested in archeology, 'believe in what classical archaeologists had said about the name of the pharaoh at the time of Moses and about Joseph entering Egypt at the days of the Hyksos, which were theories propagated by the Jews. He said the Jews had chosen this period of Egyptian history in particular to claim their participation in the building of the pyramids, and the temples of Abu Simbel and Wadi Al Sobou'.
Basaam said that he referred to Quranic verses especially the chapter on Joseph to get an evidenced clue. He also tried more than once to attend a seminar with Ulemas from Al Azhar to get a thorough explanation of the chapter. “It is due time Egyptian history is written by Egyptian historians, archaeologists and men of religion," said Bassam to the magazine.
He said that according to the Holy Quran those who saved Prophet Joseph from the well sold him for a few dirhams. But in the age of ancient Egyptian dynasties money was not yet known. They rather relied on the bartering system. It was not until the age of the Greeks that coins came in use which means that Joseph came to Egypt at a date later than what was believed.
On the other hand he said that those who believe that Joseph approached Egypt at the time of the Hyksos, relying on the common idea that the governor of Egypt was addressed as king whereas before and after the Hyksos he bore the title of Pharaoh, were erroneous. "The fact is that royalties wrote their names in cartouche and above the cartouche many titles were mentioned. But never has the word pharaoh been written in hieroglyphic in any cartouche, which means that Egyptian rulers were not necessarily called pharaohs," he asserted. He went on to say that verse No 41 of the same chapter refers to crucifixion although historically speaking crucifixion was not known at the time of the pharaohs as a sort of punishment. Crucifixion had never appeared on murals or in papyri scrolls, the researcher affirmed.
Moreover, he said the same chapter refers to the incident of stealing silver utensils of which "camel riders"-as explicitly put in Arabic- were accused. This verse bears another proof that Joseph did not come to Egypt at the days of the pharaoh, he explained, saying that if the brothers of Joseph had entered Egypt in the era of the Hyksos on camel backs, why didn't the Egyptians register the shape of the camel as a strange animal in any of their murals as they had done with the horse? The camel was uncommon to the ancient Egyptians and it did not in any of their murals , the researcher contended.Why hadn’t they used camels in their commercial trips across the desert ?, asked Bassam.
The pharaohs didn't leave any indication that they knew camels, although they mummified dogs, cats, crocodiles and foxes and drew pictures of many animals but not camels.
Moving to another controversial and sensitive issue in Egyptian history and comparative religions, Bassam refuted the claim that the ruling pharaoh at the days of Moses was Ramsis II or his son Nebtah. He said that no sufficient proof as a papyrus, an inscription or anything of the sort was given to vindicate this theory.
He said that if Ramsis II was the referred to Pharaoh how could he fostered Moses as a child when he (Ramsis II) was known to have 52 sons and 48 daughters? Another point Bassam raised was that non of Ramsis' eight wives bore the name of the pharaoh’s wife mentioned by Prophet Mohamed as Asia.
"Those claiming Nebtah to be the Pharaoh referred to in his stele at Cairo Museum in which the Jews were mentioned are also faulty in their presumption because the stele also mentions his victory over many tribes in Libya and Syria in the fifth year of his rule. It is well known that Nebtah, Ramsis's son No 13, reigned for ten years. So if Nebtah was the Pharaoh, who was then the ruler that died in the fifth year?" he said.
Bassam actually urges the formation of a work team of men of religion, archaeologists and historians to present a clear "picture of the Quranic chapter of Joseph, which he said was brimming with facts that had to be elucidated. He said that the effort should take place under the supervision of Al Azhar and the Ministry of Waqfs.
He also of the opinion that civilization should be a subject on school curricula, starting from the primary stage up to university stage so that Egyptians would be well-prepared to refute any faulty claims by those attempting to forge history.
Or - perhaps - the Quran is not entirely reliable ? ;-)))
He's absolutely wrong. I saw the Ten Commandments with Chuck Heston and Yul Brynner. CB Demille had it right! =^)
Bassam Al Shama' is all wrong.
Ah, aren't we talking about slavery here? Oh, but then that's right, this was a Jew after all. Whew!
There is support (that)
the builders of the pyramids were Egyptians. They
are not the Jews as has been said, they are not
people from a lost civilization. They are not out of
space. They are Egyptian and their skeletons are
here, and were examined by scholars, doctors and
the race of all the people we found are completely
supporting that they are Egyptians.
Exodus 10:28
Pharaoh said to Moses, "Get out of my sight! Make sure you do not appear before me again! The day you see my face you will die."
I could go on for days....
This story is nothing more than an attempt to continue on the lie that the Jews werent important to the rise of Egypt or to its downfall.
Whatever...
'holy quran'...
(insert farting sound)
I think that I might have seen a verse from the 'holy quran' the other day on a public restroom's sh!tter stall door...
I didn't know that old mohamma-rama-ding-dong had a phone number though...
There's nothing wrong with investigating the historical claims of each and comparing them to other secular evidence. But this appears to have a built-in bias for writing the Jews out of Egyptian history.
For one, the Hebrew language has a great many loan words from ancient Egyptian-- in fact, that is the source of some half of its difference from Arabic.
For another, this researcher has a ridiculously late idea of when the Exodus took place. OF COURSE, if it had to take place in or after the heyday of Egypt under Ramses II, it COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A REALITY. But, garbage in, garbage out! It occurred much earlier.
The Exodus occurred (very probably) under Amenhotep II, but in any event the date was BC 1440 at the latest! At the very earliest, many think the LIMIT might be as early as some 1550-40 BC, but IMO 90% of those scholars who believe the Exodus took place in a biblically recognizable way, ...believe it took place between 1465 and 1440 BC, a fairly narrow window for such a long time ago.
I fail to see the point about stamped money. All the Bible says is "twenty pieces of silver", and the Egyptians certainly had standardized weights and measures at the time. You better believe they knew what the Pharoah and his agents meant by "twenty pieces" - stamped money or not.
Our Egyptian informant seems to have not understood what the Bible says either - at least not any more than his critics!
Ye gads, people! Trade was being conducted with precious metals and jewels long before the development of stamped money, and millenia before the development of paper money. Obviously Joseph was sold for a price - intriguingly not stated by the Bible in terms of a monetary standard.
No, Dog Gone has it right at ~600 AD.
--Boris
Genesis and Exodus were redacted into their present exact letter-perfect form by Ezra about circa 444 BC, a thousand years earlier.
But from the many ancient details they give us, things no one in Ezra's time could have known, but we are just finding out...we can tell that Ezra's sources were accurate oral and written materials dating from very close to the events described.[example: the statement that when Abraham came into Eretz Yisroel, the "Amorites were in the land." This people was lost to history even when the KJV was translated, so they could not then be used to date Abraham.]
Only in my own lifetime has it been learned who the Amorites were, and that they were in the Land from about 2210 to 2020 BC, and by 2000 BC had totally vanished, gone with the wind.
That's about 1,300 years from the time of the Exodus.
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