Posted on 02/18/2002 8:54:15 PM PST by rwfromkansas
Did the Father bid the Prodigal Son to return to him or did the Prodigal Son choose to return? Chew on that as well.
If you would read the thread, you would find that this has been answered already, and more than once, and from several different perspectives. However, in an attempt to be helpful, here goes another explanation:
God chose, according to His plan, to use the "foolishness of preaching" to present the Gospel to His elect. He had two purposes that He has been willing to share with us as to why He did this. Number one, to demonstrate that He is capable of using the foolish things of this world to accomplish His purpose. Secondly, in order to confound the wise. In fact, He stated that He did this so "That no flesh should glory in his presence". (See I Corinthians Chapter One for support for this paragraph.)
Now, why would he want to "confound the wise"? In order that He receive all the glory for the salvation of those He has chosen to save.
"However, he is one of ours, and we are quite proud of him."
How in the world do you know what "group" I am in?
Further, the critical matter is that God is sovereign, that He has given us HIS WORD to guide, inform, upbraid us. And, yes to divide us asunder - separating us from our sin and the sorrows that we reap from it.
I have listened to and studied and taught an adult Bible class using Dr. McGee's Bible Study books (6 volume set) (and other resources) and never once did I come down in that class regarding predestination being the key "doctrine" - even though this class was taught in a Presbyterian Church, approved by our Session.
God's sovereignty is unchallengable. The fine points of the doctrine of predestination are NOT what draws people to Jesus Christ.
The point of the gospel - the point of the entire Bible - is that man FELL from grace and that God has worked through YEARS and through PEOPLE His wondrous will to perform - which has been to reconcile the world to Himself through His son.
In other words - it is ALL God - His plan, His redemption through His Son, His call, His Will, His ultimate goal which is a redeemed "bride" (the church) for HIs Son! In that awesome plan, God is at work in the lives of individual including you and me and multiplied millions.
Dr. McGee is now with his Lord awaiting the great moment when Jesus will return with his beloved ones through all the ages with Him to set up his Kingdom on this earth.
Our job now is not to debate the fine points of doctrine, but to discover what the will of God is and to be flowing WITH HIM in His mighty river, rather than trying to swim upstream against His will and plan.
Jesus said over and over again that His greatest joy, His greatest reward, was doing the will of the One who sent Him. I "contend" that if all of us "contentious" Christians would focus on that - all of these fine point distinctions would fade away like the mist.
Dr. McGee helped me find the river and go with God's flow.
If God can't sin, whether He wants to or not is irrelevant.
I think it far more likely that sin is within God's capabilities, as is all else, but He chooses otherwise.
The elect are not at present aware of their status, yet you claim that by definition, they want to please God.
Since this means that their being elect is the main reason why they want to please God, I fail to see what freewill has to do with it - one's wanting to please God or not was determined before birth.
Or is there a possibility (even just in theory) that one who is elect canlead a sinful life? If not, whether one is virtuous ornotis completely out of our hands, because it depends solely on why we are elect.
Much of the hatred for "Calvinism" is actually hatred for the Gospel, and hatred for the God of the Gospel. If you don't believe that, go back and re-read this thread and notice how many times people shake an angry fist in God's face.
Even though this thread started out as "Why I Believe Predestination", we see that all of the "doctrines of grace" are inextricably linked. Man needs to be chosen out of sin because he is totally undone in sin and cannot save himself. Man needs to be kept by the power of God's Holy Spirit because he has no power to keep himself in the faith. Man needs to be called out of his sin by the irresistable work of the Holy Spirit because he would not come otherwise. Man needs all of his sin atoned for by the death of Christ because he has no merit. Man is chosen by God irrespective of merit because he has no merit.
What we are defending here is the Gospel, nothing less. It is not a wrangling over terminology, it is a defense of the heart of the Biblical message.
C.H. Spurgeon stated it best when he said:
I have my own Private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.
Are you telling me that God does not have free-will?
(Whenever I tell non-Calvinists that unregenerate men cannot please God without being regenerated by the power of God they tell me that I deny the free-will of men. Doesn't appear that you can have it both ways.)
The regenerate elect are very well aware of their status.
I know that God chose me, and gave me new life on July 24, 1972. If you were to "believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead" and trust Jesus Christ as your only savior from sin (something you have told me in another thread that you haven't yet done, if I remember correctly), you could also know His choice of you, today.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. - Romans 10:9-11
...behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. - II Corinthians 6:2b
Did you forget to read the entire Old Testament? Did God love the Egyptian first-born as much as He loved the children of Israel?
Did God love the Caananites as much as He loved Joshua?
Did God love the Philistines as much as He loved David?
Or the New Testament. Did God love Judas Iscariot as much as He loved Peter, James, and John?
Did God love Agrippa as much as he loved Paul?
God does not love indiscriminately. he loves those upon whom He chooses to lavish His love.
Was the Prodigal Son a son before he left? Why must this be a parable about salvation and not the repentence of a son? Why do you define doctrine by parable and then make the statements of doctrine fit the parable instead of defining doctrine by statements of doctrine and then reading the parables appropriately?
Matthew 18:12-13 "What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them goes astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine and go to the mountains to seek the one that is straying? And if he should find it, assuredly, I say to you, he rejoices more over that sheep than over the ninety-nine that did not go astray.
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