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To: Jerry_M
"you would have to claim him as one of your own."

"However, he is one of ours, and we are quite proud of him."

How in the world do you know what "group" I am in?

Further, the critical matter is that God is sovereign, that He has given us HIS WORD to guide, inform, upbraid us. And, yes to divide us asunder - separating us from our sin and the sorrows that we reap from it.

I have listened to and studied and taught an adult Bible class using Dr. McGee's Bible Study books (6 volume set) (and other resources) and never once did I come down in that class regarding predestination being the key "doctrine" - even though this class was taught in a Presbyterian Church, approved by our Session.

God's sovereignty is unchallengable. The fine points of the doctrine of predestination are NOT what draws people to Jesus Christ.

The point of the gospel - the point of the entire Bible - is that man FELL from grace and that God has worked through YEARS and through PEOPLE His wondrous will to perform - which has been to reconcile the world to Himself through His son.

In other words - it is ALL God - His plan, His redemption through His Son, His call, His Will, His ultimate goal which is a redeemed "bride" (the church) for HIs Son! In that awesome plan, God is at work in the lives of individual including you and me and multiplied millions.

Dr. McGee is now with his Lord awaiting the great moment when Jesus will return with his beloved ones through all the ages with Him to set up his Kingdom on this earth.

Our job now is not to debate the fine points of doctrine, but to discover what the will of God is and to be flowing WITH HIM in His mighty river, rather than trying to swim upstream against His will and plan.

Jesus said over and over again that His greatest joy, His greatest reward, was doing the will of the One who sent Him. I "contend" that if all of us "contentious" Christians would focus on that - all of these fine point distinctions would fade away like the mist.

Dr. McGee helped me find the river and go with God's flow.

207 posted on 02/20/2002 6:04:12 AM PST by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
Brother, we are (as you can imagine) probably very close in our beliefs. However, I would challenge you to think on one point.

Much of the hatred for "Calvinism" is actually hatred for the Gospel, and hatred for the God of the Gospel. If you don't believe that, go back and re-read this thread and notice how many times people shake an angry fist in God's face.

Even though this thread started out as "Why I Believe Predestination", we see that all of the "doctrines of grace" are inextricably linked. Man needs to be chosen out of sin because he is totally undone in sin and cannot save himself. Man needs to be kept by the power of God's Holy Spirit because he has no power to keep himself in the faith. Man needs to be called out of his sin by the irresistable work of the Holy Spirit because he would not come otherwise. Man needs all of his sin atoned for by the death of Christ because he has no merit. Man is chosen by God irrespective of merit because he has no merit.

What we are defending here is the Gospel, nothing less. It is not a wrangling over terminology, it is a defense of the heart of the Biblical message.

C.H. Spurgeon stated it best when he said:

I have my own Private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.

214 posted on 02/20/2002 6:13:58 AM PST by Jerry_M
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