[StDonTheBaptist]

Good post. Thanks

[Knight_125]

Read Romans 9. Paul gives an arguement and defense of Election (Calvinism).

[CCWoody]

It looks like ftd has found someone else who either cannot or does not want to correctly define our position.

[biblewonk]

Catholics read that someone named Mary existed and before you know it, she is the Queen of heaven, immaculately conceived, ascended into heaven, ever virgin, mediatrix, etc etc etc etc.

To say that there is no scripture supporting election is every bit as deceitful.

[newgeezer]

I'm just glad that I had enough intelligence and humility to choose Christ, unlike those wretched heathens.

[biblewonk]

Thank you Lord that I'm not like those foolish and faithless heathens. Thank you that I was good enough and smart enough to believe in Jesus. Those heathens will have no one to blame but themselves for believing and I will have no one to thank but....

[Outlaw76]

*Hears Tiny Tim singing in the background*
"Tiptoe through the T.U.L.I.P. in the garden of make believe..."

Sorry, I realy couldn't resist. Thank God Christianity believes in forgiveness.

[Fifth Business]

It's difficult to accept just a little bit of providence. For example, do you believe that God creates souls and determines into what physical form and environs they are to be born? If so, aren't you glad He did not put you in Turkey? After all, that would be pre-ordaining you to a life of Islam.

[JenB]

First off, the definition of TULIP that I have been taught starts with T for "Total Depravity", something different from what this article is talking about. And again, it fails to truthfully talk about the Calvinist position - but here is an area where there are many more knowledgable people than me to talk.

[rdb3]

The author's claims have been refuted several times right here on FR.

Will you glorify God, or man? Ya can't do both.

[Right_Wing_Mole_In_Seattle]

The Bible teaches total depravity. But that simply means that there is nothing good in man to earn or deserve salvation.

If you are willing to believe in Christ then you are NOT "totally depraved" and there IS something good in you (to earn salvation). Has an Arminian EVER answered this? Isn't your desire to follow Christ, the "good thing" that merits your salvation.

The Bible never hints that people are lost because they have no ability to come to Christ.

This is correct. People are lost because they have no desire to come to Christ. Calvin would call it a voluntary slavery. That is what Jeremiah 17:9 teaches: "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked."

It always drives me crazy when people explain Calvinism incorrectly, before they pitifully attempt to discredit it.

[southern rock]

The best resolution to this I have ever heard was, "Know that all things are pre-ordained, but act like they are not".

[woollyone]

"If you have come to a strong personal conviction on one side of a doctrinal issue, please grant us the privilege of first seeing how it has helped you to become more Christ-like in your nature, and then we will judge whether we need to come to that same persuasion. Let us always be certain to look at the fruit of the teaching."

From here...The center of Biblical tension...the most loving and balanced approach, which maintains unity in the body of Christ.

[connectthedots]

Well stated in clear and concise language.

[rwfromkansas]

This is the first post I have seen (that I remember anyway) that actually discusses the Bible instead of just bashing the Calvinists. However, this does not convince me that I am wrong. I still am a staunch Calvinist and am more convinced now. However, it never hurts to hear arguments against your beliefs....because, after all, what if you are wrong?

[rwfromkansas]

Okay, now that I posted my comment giving a bit of a prop for a serious discussion on this issue, I now have to comment on this: "It is true that God foreknows everything that will happen in the world. It is true that God definitely ordained and determined some events ahead of time and selected some individuals for His purposes."

God does everything to fulfill his will.

[rwfromkansas]

BTW, if man is not good, as (shock) even this author agrees, how is it possible for a person to choose good? If man is opposed to good, he will continue to choose evil. Total Depravity is the truth, but Arminians like this author say that man is messed up, yet he can still come to Christ. What utter stupidity. Man is dead in sin and is a SLAVE according to Scripture. He will NOT come. It is only the grace of God which makes him come.

[rwfromkansas]

I retract my initial statement on this thread expressing pleasure with someone actually debating Scripture on this issue.

My reason is that well, the author is outright deceiving. He mentions Eph. 1:4, but does not bother to quote the information after the colon in the next verse. I bet this is why: Ephesians 1:5 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love, having predestined us to adoption as children by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will”

Then, where th author says only some things are worked by the will of God...Eph. 11: “In whom we also have obtained an inheritance being predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh ALL things after the counsel of his will."

[rwfromkansas]

Please see this thread...it is my personal statement about why I believe predestination and I have passed it out to kids at school: Why I Believe Predestination

[billbears]

bump