Posted on 02/06/2002 11:44:28 AM PST by inflorida
Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown
What mix up????
Now as to the fines the big purpose is it gets people aware of where the muzzle is at all times. The awareness is what actually prevents someone's brains be spread all over the floor in an "accident."
Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - yorktown
I use a Hogue Handall on my G23 and a Hogue Handall Jr on my G27.
I prefer the feel with the grips.
Good website for aftermarket things for Glocks.
XeniaSt
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Training Counselor
I know the feeling, the big Berettas make my wrist feel way out of joint. Conversely, the Sigs feel like they are growing out of my arm. I may yet buy one.
But, I wanted an automatic that had the simplicity of a revolver, in case Mrs. TC ever had to pick it up and use it. Now that I've had my Glock a while, I love it.
Thank God, we live in a country where we have these choices. I just can't understand why people feel such emotions towards the Glocks. I can find something to like about most any handgun, outside of some of the true trash out there.
Yes, I am glad we are living in a nation where these choices are available although that right is as we all know being threatened. I cartainly recognize that the Glock is a well made and well design pistol but it is not my personal choice. I do not like the S&W Sigma series either. I have recently adopted a new back up the Sig imported Mauser M2 in .45 ACP It has an eight shot magazine is compact and easy to slip in a pocket. It has a long exceptionally smooth trigger pull that measures 5 lbs. I can keep a nice group at 25 yards and it is on center of the target. I like the way it feels in my hand. I like the way it shoots. Will it suit other's like it does me? I shall leave that to the market.
By the way I have tried some of the after market grip accessories for the Glock and they do seem to improve the feel but it is omething more subtle than even after market grips can improve that make me disfavor one for my own carry.
Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
Good thing you don't reside in an apartment community, you would be paying a lawyer big bucks right now to get you out of trouble!!
Massad Ayoob, Director of the Lethal Force Institute
demonstrating to students the three NRA Safe Gun Handling rules:
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
XeniaSt
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Training Counselor
trainer of NRA Certified Instructors and Range Safety Officers
This officer mishandled this weapon. They actually make bright orange and red plastic models of handguns for demonstration purposes. I own 27 rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I sell them for a living, and I have no forgiveness in me for this shooter. It was 100% his fault.
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations take this rule and weaken it; e.g. "Treat all guns as if they were loaded." Unfortunately, the "as if" compromises the directness of the statement by implying that they are unloaded, but we will treat them as though they are loaded. No good! Safety rules must be worded forcefully so that they are never treated lightly or reduced to partial compliance.
All guns are always loaded - period!
This must be your mind-set. If someone hands you a firearm and says, "Don't worry, it's not loaded," you do not dare believe him. You need not be impolite, but check it yourself. Remember, there are no accidents, only negligent acts. Check it. Do not let yourself fall prey to a situation where you might feel compelled to squeal, "I didn't know it was loaded!"
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
Conspicuously and continuously violated, especially with pistols, Rule II applies whether you are involved in range practice, daily carry, or examination. If the weapon is assembled and in someone's hands, it is capable of being discharged. A firearm holstered properly, lying on a table, or placed in a scabbard is of no danger to anyone. Only when handled is there a need for concern. This rule applies to fighting as well as to daily handling. If you are not willing to take a human life, do not cover a person with the muzzle. This rule also applies to your own person. Do not allow the muzzle to cover your extremities, e.g. using both hands to reholster the pistol. This practice is unsound, both procedurally and tactically. You may need a free hand for something important. Proper holster design should provide for one-handed holstering, so avoid holsters which collapse after withdrawing the pistol. (Note: It is dangerous to push the muzzle against the inside edge of the holster nearest the body to "open" it since this results in your pointing the pistol at your midsection.) Dry-practice in the home is a worthwhile habit and it will result in more deeply programmed reflexes. Most of the reflexes involved in the Modern Technique do not require that a shot be fired. Particular procedures for dry-firing in the home will be covered later. Let it suffice for now that you do not dry-fire using a "target" that you wish not to see destroyed. (Recall RULE I as well.)
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
Rule III is violated most anytime the uneducated person handles a firearm. Whether on TV, in the theaters, or at the range, people seem fascinated with having their finger on the trigger. Never stand or walk around with your finger on the trigger. It is unprofessional, dangerous, and, perhaps most damaging to the psyche, it is klutzy looking. Never fire a shot unless the sights are superimposed on the target and you have made a conscious decision to fire. Firing an unaligned pistol in a fight gains nothing. If you believe that the defensive pistol is only an intimidation tool - not something to be used - carry blanks, or better yet, reevaluate having one around. If you are going to launch a projectile, it had best be directed purposely. Danger abounds if you allow your finger to dawdle inside the trigger guard. As soon as the sights leave the target, the trigger-finger leaves the trigger and straightens alongside the frame. Since the hand normally prefers to work as a unit - as in grasping - separating the function of the trigger-finger from the rest of the hand takes effort. The five-finger grasp is a deeply programmed reflex. Under sufficient stress, and with the finger already placed on the trigger, an unexpected movement, misstep or surprise could result in a negligent discharge. Speed cannot be gained from such a premature placement of the trigger-finger. Bringing the sights to bear on the target, whether from the holster or the Guard Position, takes more time than that required for moving the trigger finger an inch or so to the trigger.
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
Know what it is, what is in line with it, and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything you have not positively identified. Be aware of your surroundings, whether on the range or in a fight. Do not assume anything. Know what you are doing.
SUMMARY
Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?
Make these rules a part of your character. Never compromise them. Improper gunhandling results from ignorance and improper role modeling, such as handling your gun like your favorite actor does. Education can cure this. You can make a difference by following these gunhandling rules and insisting that those around you do the same. Set the example. Who knows what tragedies you, or someone you influence, may prevent?
514 posted on 2/11/02 8:47 AM Mountain by archy
These are very close to the rules the NRA taught 25 or 30 years ago.
They are still very useful to grunts and dogfaces.
Jeff Cooper does not provide insurance for gun ranges nor tracked range safety,
he can say anything he wants as he is not responsible for anyone's safety but his own.
His rules have been proven over the years to be inadequate and unsafe for all others.
The officer knew the gun was loaded (ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED)
which is why she removed the magazine.
As soon as she removed the gun from the holster in the classroom, she violated NRA rule one.
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
However had she:
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. ( which includes in her holster )
and
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
there would not have been a discharge or if there was a discharge it would have been in a safe direction.
Every year there so-called "accidental discharges" by LEOs, who are following Coopers rules.
If they were following the three NRA safe gun handling rules as Massad Ayoob trains, all would be safer.
Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.
XeniaSt
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
NRA Training Counselor
trainer of NRA Certified Instructors and Range Safety Officers
Gun policy issued - then rescinded
The order, for off-duty officers in response to Wednesday's show-and-tell shooting, was sent without the commissioner's OK.
Inquirer Staff Writers
A directive banning off-duty officers from carrying guns into Philadelphia public schools, implemented yesterday after a boy was grazed by an officer's bullet Wednesday, was rescinded hours later.
Acting Police Commissioner Sylvester M. Johnson said he rescinded it because the order, issued by Police Inspector Jose M. Melendez, was sent without his approval.
"It's not a bad idea, but he does not set policy. Policy can only be set by the police commissioner," said Johnson, addressing his subordinate's actions.
The apparent departmental faux pas by Melendez came a day after 10-year-old James Reeves, a fourth grader at Imani Education Circle Charter School in Germantown, was grazed in the face by shrapnel when a pistol belonging to an off-duty officer discharged during a show-and-tell exercise.
Reeves received five stitches at Temple University Children's Hospital and returned home Wednesday night in good condition. The officer, Vanessa Carter-Moragne, 39, who allowed her 9 mm Glock pistol to be passed around among students during the exercise before it went off, has been removed from street duty and is now the subject of an Internal Affairs investigation, police said.
At 9:09 a.m. yesterday, the police teletype clattered out Melendez's five-point order, which stated in part: "When visiting a school, off-duty personnel will be screened for weapons. Personnel displaying police badges or identification cards will not be exempt from compliance. There will be no exceptions."
Johnson's terse, two-paragraph rescission was issued at 3:41 p.m.
Longtime police observers said it was virtually unheard of that a major policy change such as what briefly went into effect yesterday would be issued under the name of someone other than the police commissioner. Yesterday's order was signed "Inspector Jose M. Melendez, executive officer, Education and Training Bureau (and) special advisor to the School District of Philadelphia."
"Joe sent that out incorrectly," said Deputy Police Commissioner Dexter Green, who is chief safety executive for the school district and Melendez's direct supervisor. "It should have read that it was a reminder to police officers that it is the school district policy that off-duty police officers and other law-enforcement officers are not allowed in our buildings with weapons."
Philadelphia police officials said a directive already on the books about use of firearms spells out when and where a weapon can be drawn.
"Your gun is only to be removed from the holster if you're planning to shoot it or clean it," Johnson said.
Of Carter-Moragne's actions, Johnson said: "It's hard to set policy for common sense."
Off-duty police are permitted to carry their weapons but are not required to do so.
Police spokesman Cpl. Jim Pauley said officers must follow outside restrictions if they are imposed in a specific building or by an organization that prohibits guns on public or private property.
For example, police must check their guns when they enter a prison or jail. Also, they are not permitted to carry a weapon into an airport if they are off-duty. Some private organizations impose similar policies.
"Guns are not permitted inside the First Union Center or First Union Spectrum," said Ike Richman, spokesman for Comcast-Spectacor. Only for special events, such as the Republican National Convention, would guns be permitted, and that must be cleared in advance, Richman said.
Imani Education Circle, which opened in 1999 and is one of 39 charter schools in the district, is funded by public money but is not bound by the district's policy. It was unclear whether Imani has a specific policy that would prohibit an off-duty officer from bringing a gun there. The school was closed yesterday for a previously scheduled staff-development day for teachers.
Vice principal Kwabena Rodgers said that much of yesterday's session for the school's 17 teachers was devoted to discussing the shooting.
"We are all talking about supporting each other, the family, and the young man and preparing ourselves to talk to the students," Rodgers said. "We are all healing together."
Rodgers said that school officials met Wednesday night with James Reeves and his family at their home and that the boy may return to school next week.
"He is a strong boy," Rodgers said. "I don't know when emotionally he will be ready to walk back into the building. We are just waiting to see."
Ali Cleveland, associate director of the Pennsylvania Million Mom March, called the Imani incident "irresponsible" and said off-duty police should not bring guns into schools.
"Accidents can always happen," Cleveland said.
Rich Costello, president of the local Fraternal Order of Police, said that although one could question the judgment used by Carter-Moragne, the officer's "motives were pure" in teaching children about gun safety.
"There's no doubt about it: We have a tragic accident. I emphasize the word accident," Costello said. "There's no one in Philadelphia who feels more horrible about what happened than that officer."
Costello said that the officer made a mistake that may require more firearms training, but that it did not rise to a level that would warrant termination.
"If we're going to fire everyone for making a mistake," Costello said, "then we would only have three or four people employed in the city of Philadelphia."
Barbara Boyer's e-mail address is bboyer@phillynews.com.
It appears the fix is in, to keep this numbskull on the force.
Might I suggest that when they retrain her, they should give her the 'special' red Glock for a duty weapon. Tell her it's a diversity award and that she is now exempt from practice at the range.
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