Posted on 02/06/2002 11:44:28 AM PST by inflorida
This just reported on Fox news. A 10 year old child in Pennsylvania was accidentally shot in the head during a school demonstration by an off-duty cop.
The child is expected to survive.
I took my 76Y30 (Unit Supply Specialist/Armorer) class in '72. Word was, that there were a lot of Cat 4s being recruited and I believe it, if my classes were any indication. Bunches of dummys with attitude.
Our first day in armorer class, they had a hands-on of all mil small arms. I layed back and let the others handle the weapons, since I was familiar with most of them. I heard a voice behind me say, 'Look at me, I'm drawing a bead on pumpkin head'.
Well, pumpkin head was the nickname given to me by my African-American comrades in arms. I turned around and found myself looking down the barrel of a M3A1 grease gun.
I immediately grabbed the barrel and pushed it up, got a hand on the stock and took it away from the idiot. He then got a big attitude and the instructors had to separate us.
The instructor took me out of the class. I informed him that no one points a weapon at me, yada yada. He told me some PC bullsh!t about tolerance, understanding, etc.
I told him to tell the little bastards the next time they did it, I'd kill them. Never had anymore problems after that.
An off-duty cop has no more use for a concealed weapon than anyone else, and should be subjected to the same requirements.
This woman should be prosecuted for reckless endangerment. The average citizen would have been, I assure you. I suspect what will happen, though, is that the D.A. in her county will refuse to prosecute her, citing "professional courtesy," just as the cops don't ticket speeding D.A.'s for the same reason.
When will this end?
I was in a large gun shop basically just shooting the breeze when a guy who gave me the impression of being a little strange, wanted to look at a military sword. He took it and played with it a little then looked at me and sort of jokingly drew it back as if he were going to attack. I was 99% sure he was not serious but it scared me. I told in a firm and angry voice to put it down. Fortunately he did so.You got THAT right, but it could have been even WORSE... You could have met the guy from THIS thread:For some reason, perhaps deep in the psyche, the sword bothered me far worse than a pistol.
Of course the guy holding it made some of the difference.
Man beheads rival, puts head on hood of car
Posted on 2/4/02 3:00 PM Pacific by Luis GonzalezST. PETERSBURG -- "A man beheaded his rival during an early morning fight Monday and then placed the severed head on the hood of a car for neighbors to see, police said.
Officers came upon the scene as the man was trying to arrange a mirror in front of the decapitated head. Police said the suspect, Dennis George Roache, 34, has a history of mental illness.
``One officer at the scene said this was the most gruesome thing he'd seen in a really long time,'' police spokesman George Kajtsa said.
Police were called to the home in south St. Petersburg shortly before 8:30 a.m. by a woman who said she had barricaded herself in a bathroom when her former boyfriend broke into the home of her current boyfriend, Gregory L. Shannon, 18.
The woman told police Roache was wielding a 2½-foot machete. Police said he'd bought the machete Sunday at a Pinellas Park flea market..."
I used to shoot at a range frequented by cops, but I eventually stopped going because they all gave me the creeps. These people are truly dangerous with their firearms.
There's alot of whackos out there.
Right. While there are a few pistols that do in fact load from a clip (e.g. 1896 Mauser, Tokarev, etc.) the rounds are in fact loaded from the clip into the magazine.
If you remove a magazine from a pistol, it can be fired at most once. Remove the clip from an 1896 Mauser, however, and it can be fired 10 times. [Actually, if you don't remove the clip, the pistol can't be fired at all!]
I have seen too many stupid, unsafe acts to count, and fortunately, was able to take care of the person committing them with some one on one interaction (most are not aware they are unsafe, so simply telling them what is going on takes care of the problem).
The only one that scared me half to death was when after "cease fire" was called (range rules requiring actions locked open and cylinders open, with the firearm on the bench), and an appropriate time had elapsed. I went out and started changing my target. I remember hearing the "bang" and saw a big disturbance against the backstop (extremely close to gwmoore). Well, as you can probably guess, someone had simply laid a 1911 down without clearing and locking the action open Then picked it up to show it off, regardless of the rules and the action was so lousy from wear, it discharged. OK, the guy had no business even picking up his firearm when others were downrange(I believe he was "showing his original 1911 [not an A1] to someone"), but after regaining my composure, I went over to the offending position. The pistol needed some SERIOUS gunsmitihing, was unsafe for use, and I do believe the owner was as upset as I was. Anyhow, nobody was hurt, I discovered that one can still move quickly after 6 spinal surgeries when motivated sufficiently, and everyone learned a lesson, especially the owner of said .45 who was banned from the range for a time by the club.
Frankly, I believe in the policy that one should consider ALL firearms loaded ALL the time, with absolutely no safeties present. If one treats all firearms like this, the risk of AD's are tremendously reduced.
Keep the Faith for Freedom
MAY GOD BLESS AND PROTECT THIS HONORABLE REPUBLIC
Greg
They are there for SA conditions. They have also been improved over the decades to also help prevent ND caused by accidental trigger pulls.
Is not the reason for having SA firearms rather than DAO to allow for shorter and lighter trigger pulls? I have had a Ruger Mark II (unloaded) drop the hammer during casual handling with the safety off, without my putting the tip of my finger through the trigger guard [with the tip of my finger on the front of the trigger guard, my finger bent back enough that the inside of the last joint brushed against the trigger]. Such a trigger may be nice on the range, but if such a firearm were holstered with the safety off an unintended discharge could occur at any time.
”In a carry piece, however, a manual safety just adds one more thing to go "wrong"--if it's set on "fire" by mistake, the odds of an unintended discharge are much higher than with a Glock, and if it's left on "safe" by mistake when the gun is needed, the owner may fail to stop an attacker from killing him.”
More cops have had their lives saved by manual safeties. When a bad guy gets hold of a cops gun that is a Glock, he only has to pull the trigger and kill the cop. Manual safeties give the cops a few moments to regain control of the situation. It isn’t just the owner that a manual safety is trying to prevent from discharging the gun accidentally. As Col Copper said, “Putting the safety on the trigger is like putting the combination on the outside of the safe.”
A cop may get lucky and have the crook that stole his gun be too stupid to operate the safety. Far better, though, to train the cop in weapons retention.
The “safety” on the trigger of a Glock is only a drop-fire prevention mechanism. It provides to more safety than a revolver. Which bring me to the next point.
It protects against drop-fires and most types of 'incidental contact' with the trigger, such as the described above with the Ruger Mark II. As for pulling the trigger with a finger, if you don't want the gun to go bang, don't pull the trigger. And if you won't want a crook to shoot you with your gun, don't let him take it.
Glocks are not the only drop-safe firearms. Most modern firearms are drop-safe, and Kali is proving that point through the requirement to have drop-safe tests before allowing the firearm to be sold in Kali. It seems most firearms are passing the test. Even revolvers have firing pin disconnects. If the trigger isn’t pressed then the hammer plate is not in place and the hammer will not strike the firing pin. Beretta’s have three safeties including trigger based firing pin blocks. Glocks are no safer than a revolver.
I never claimed Glocks were safer than a revolver. I personally prefer the trigger pull on a Glock to that of a revolver, however, and consider them to be no less safe.
Safeties are not “keeps ‘em from firing at all costs”. They are “safeties”. They are to help prevent mishandling which creates accidental trigger pulls. Glocks are DOA firearms, and a heavy trigger pull does not prevent accidental working of the trigger.
What do you mean "accidental working"? If you don't put your finger or another object clearly into the trigger guard of a Glock, it won't fire. How can one "accidentally" work the trigger on a Glock except through extreme carelessness?
Those super cool gun classes teaching QDM (Quick Draw McGraw) has done more harm to firearm safety than anything a stupid person has ever accomplished. Speed draws have caused more cops to loose their toes. If a person can learn to “keep their finger off the safety [read: trigger]”, then they also can learn to release a manual safety, millions of people have. Professional gun competitions require safeties on, and I bet you couldn’t beat the pro’s at QDM.
Some of those rapid shooters are pretty amazing--I won't dispute that. But they are in a totally-different situation from a normal self-defense shooter. While it's true that people under stress generally resort to their training, I don't think most shooting drills involve re-honstering a just-used gun which is still loaded. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
It seems Glock has you brainwashed, nicely.
Whatever. The only way someone is going to have an accidental discharge with a Glock is if they have their finger on the trigger when they shouldn't. I can't see how the training required to remove one's finger from the trigger before holstering is any more difficult than the training required to set the safety to "safe" every time the gun is holstered. I see no reason to believe anyone who can't handle the former will be able to handle the latter.
Oh ok .. The local talk radio guy today was ripping this officer apart and mentioned many times about the affirmative action program ... and get this .. The Police Chief is not sure what they will do with this officer .. which also means .. they will do nothing .. IMO .. she should be fired ..
I have to agreed with you on that .. from what I heard .. not only was he a fine Officer but also a loving devoted father and husband ...
The whole thing is sad and my prayers are with his family
Time to have legislation to close that "flea market loophole"!
When I was 11 I made the mistake of sweeping a former Marine Gunnery Sgt/WWII/Korea vet who was our marksmanship merit badge instructor. I do not remember exactly how I wound up on the ground with his foot on my chest it happened very very fast. I was informed if I ever pointed a gun at another person I had damn sure better be ready to kill them because they would be totally justified in killing me. I had learned my lesson. In exercises I never wound up with the muzzle covering a fellow team member and avoided the getting taken down.
Now I do not know about the takedown regardless of rank being in force outside of UDT/SEAL teams as I do remember seeing people swept in basic and marching drill teams often sweep others.
Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
I would suggest that the culture in your PD needs to change but unfortunately that kind of culture change is almost impossible to implement. Although an informal $1 fine paid to the person swept every time it happens might be a way to cut down on the number of times it happens.
Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown
I would suggest that the culture in your PD needs to change but unfortunately that kind of culture change is almost impossible to implement. Although an informal $1 fine paid to the person swept every time it happens might be a way to cut down on the number of times it happens.
Stay well - Stay safe - stay armed - Yorktown
Cop Accidentally Shoots Boy at Son's School
Fri Feb 8,10:13 AM ET
PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - An off-duty Philadelphia police officer attending a career day at her son's school fired an accidental round from her semi-automatic handgun and it grazed a 10-year-old boy's head, police said.
The child, who was not named, was treated at Temple University Hospital for a slight wound, said police spokesman Sgt. Roland Lee.
Wednesday's incident at Imani Charter School in northwest Philadelphia is under investigation and the officer, who also was not named, has been reassigned to desk duty in the meantime, Lee said.
The boy should be released from the hospital later on Wednesday, he added.
"What happened is that during a demonstration for her son's class, a child asked to see her weapon. She pulled it from her holster and it discharged, grazing the child," Lee said.
He identified the firearm as a Glock 9 mm semi-automatic, which many police departments have abandoned because of problems with the safety catch.
"They're touchy weapons," he said.
-------------------------------------------
Can you believe it? They've forgotton this woman's name. She no longer dropped the gun. She no longer passed it around in class. And somehow, it's now Glocks fault.
There are no problems with a Glock 'safety catch', since it doesn't have one.
"They're touchy weapons", yeah, you touch the trigger with 5.5 pounds of force directed towards the rear of the weapon and they go boom.
With the above disclaimer anyone who states the Glock will go off when dropped or in any way without a severe mechanical failure or someone pulling the trigger towards the rear of the frame is a liar or an idiot.
Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown
They're touchy weapons," he said.
I loves all my Glocks. I've carried one for years; no problemo.
Just have to know and respect their unique characteristics.
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