George Bush's Big Government Adventure

Free Republic and Various ^ | 01-30-02 | aaabest

[AAABEST]

With Conservative Like This, Who Needs Liberals?

Let me start off by addressing those who have been bashing(and I do mean bash) me and other well intentioned and well known Freepers as being anti-Bush, Libertarians, from the reform party or whatever. 

I voted for GWB, and I can ping several freepers to this thread that met me in real life at several Bush rallies (with megaphone in hand). I was a member of the Broward County Young Republicans before moving to the West coast of Florida and I was active in Jeb Bush's campaign for Governor. 

I've been on this forum for almost 4 years and anyone that knows me is aware of my conservative views and knows that I'm not a member of the reform party, I'm not a Libertarian (large "l") or any of the other things I and others like me have been accused of.

If you have been engaging in inflammatory rhetoric, bashing long-time, well known Freepers or acting like children because not all of us are enthralled with "Georges Big Government Adventure",  please try to control yourselves, at least while posting on this thread. 

It's not my purpose (at least at this point) to get GWB un-elected, I like him, he has a beautiful wife, he's a good Commander in Chief and he seems like an honest politician. However,  if he keeps ignoring conservative principles and promoting a larger more intrusive government, I and others can no longer continue to support him....on principle. 

We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America.

Above is the Free Republic mission statement.  After his first year, would anyone say that GWB has worked towards this end? I think many conservatives suffer from some kind of Stockholm Syndrome as a result of 8 years of President Clinton, because when I ask many of them what GWB has done for conservatism lately, all I get is that he's not Clinton. 

I know he's not a corrupt, law breaking scoundrel, but is that all that's required? Can our republic survive a cycle where Republicans get into office grow government greatly, interspersed with Democrats who grow government even more greatly with little or no reduction? There are actually people on FR that think all of this growth in government spending is some grandiose 8 year plan by Mr. Bush to fool Democrats so that he can cut government later. What an absurd notion.

If any of the initiatives below originated from the Clinton administration, people on FR would have had a cow. Those "Day in the Life of President Bush" threads garner hundreds of fawning responses, while a thread on how our government is growing out of control will die after 10.

I appeal to anyone reading this to consider the below information without bias. The links will open in a separate window for you convenience.  I will be adding to this information as necessary God bless America, God bless this forum and God bless you.

Click on the Picture of the President (thinking of new ways grow government) for the corresponding article.

	Huge education spending bill (i.e. Federal Local School Board Bribery Act) which liberal Democrats love that doesn't mention a word about choice or local control.
	Food stamps for immigrants.
	Largest spending bill in American History. The first to exceed 2 trillion dollars.
	The Airport Security Bill that completely takes control of over 28,000 screening jobs. Now it seems that they don't even have to be high school graduates either. The big difference, they can't be fired.
	100 million for welfare moms.
	Hugely Expanding Clinton's Amercorps boondoggle that all conservatives railed against.
	Kowtowing to law breaking illegal immigrants by proposing amnesty. Speaking of illegal immigrants who sneak across the border; "And we've got to respect that, seems like to me, and treat those people with respect," he added. "I remind people all across our country: Family values do not stop at the border."
.	38 Billion for a new Homeland Security bureaucracy that allots a 20% increase for border control. Guess what. It goes to our problematic Canadian border, with not a dollar spent on the Mexican border. Read it for yourself
	The  Orwellian "Patriot Act" that gives Federal authorities carte blanche to rifle through all of your digital communications and essentially,  rob your house without notice.
	71.5 billion over 10 years for government health care.
	Not releasing appropriate documents on Clinton and FBI corruption.

 

[Protagoras]

The first step to recovery is admitting the truth to yourself and others. C'mon hack, admit that you never read the ill named "Patriot" act. C'mon kid, you can do it,,just be a man and admit it.

[My2Cents]

People in your group actually like to call us liberals and Nazi's when in fact we are so far to the right of you in conservative principle that it would break your neck to even get a glimpse of us.

Some of you are so far to the right of the rest of us that you're about to fall off the spectrum entirely.

I want to address this bogeyman of "pragmatism vs. principle," as if being pragmatic means a completely amoral or total surrender of principle.

I prefer to characterize the contrast this way: in-the-trenches real-world political and public policy implementation vs. ivory tower philosophical idealism and speculation. It's the difference between actually trying to implement principles and a philosophy of government in the real world of political dynamics and policy making on the one hand, and the luxury of sitting at home and building a mental picture of the perfect world on the other. There's nothing wrong with having a philosophy, and knowing what you believe in. But part of implementing that vision in the real world requires knowing what you can compromise on, and what are nonnegotiable items that you will go to the death on, even if it means failure of your entire objective. Those of us who work in the real world of politics and public policy implementation always have to weigh what we have to be uncompromising on, and what we have to let go. We don't have the luxury of an "all-or-nothing/black-and-white" approach to politics.

As a final comment: If what you want is to run the "Bush rah-rahs" off of FR, and return it to a select fraternity of hard-right impractical purists, then keep up your attacks and your negativity. Pretty soon, maybe you'll preach FR down to only YOU, and wouldn't that be a wonderful thing!

[My2Cents]

No, the first step in recovery is to admit that you are powerless to fix the mess you're in, and the mess you've become. The next step is believe there is a God who CAN fix the mess you're in. The third step is to actually surrender to that God, and let Him fix the mess.

Admitting where you were wrong is the fourth step. ;-)

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

. So you should keep in mind that you look far more out of place to us than we do to you. We were here first -worried about the state of our Republic when you were who knows where doing who knows what.

Hey Revel.. We have been here as long as you. And if you had read our profile here, you would know that. You could have even confirmed it with JimRob. We have paid for Banners to fly over Stadiums, for newpaper adds to be in Papers in our Nation. We called the news networks during the rallie in DC where over 5,000 people attended, and they put it together in approx. two or three weeks!!! It was amazing.. and the kind of activism we need in this country. We only got to see it in it's entirety on C-span. But it was awesome to behold!! As to your proprietor comments..we HAVE been here forever. I even believe our sign up date was 1997.

But there ya go.. jumping the gun assuming I'm a newbie!!! Why am I not surprized!!!

There have been people with your views here since the conception of this site. That is true.

We have always felt the views espoused by some of you are way to paranoid! And thankfully you are in the minority.

There have been people who look at the glass half empty instead of half full since this Nation was born. Easy to see what your views are.

I can't help but wonder why all of you, you who think it is just so dang dangerous here in this country,.. who think it is so ready to fall to pieces.. don't just friggin leave?? Why don't you find an island where you can all go live happily with your kind of Government? (But, if you ever do take my advice.. please.. I BEG YOU.. send me video's. It will be better than any old west movie ever made!!! Problem is you will all be extinct in no time at all, you'll kill each other off.. die from disease, or starve to death!)

BTW,.. you and the people who think like you are not now. .nor ever have been the majority here. I want to make that perfectly clear. It's the interenet..and we get our share of whacko's (which is my opinion of your ideologies).

We must always be vigilant that LAWS don't get changed that could affect our lives negatively. That if changed would undo the rights we enjoy as citizens of this great Nation.

In this house we fight for those rights in tangible ways. Ways that have obviously worked. But that fight isn't over..and it never will be. We aren't so naive to think there aren't people who are radical in wanting to undo that which has worked extremely well for this Nation for a couple hundred years!!

Things like the right to bear arms. The right to life!! Are worth fighting for, and we will in this house. In order to keep those rights and preserve the Constitution we must make sure we are active and do so.. but in ways that are truly effective. By actions not just tough guy words.

We have a radical fringe in this country that I feel are as dangerous to our rights and safety as though who would shred our Bill of rights. People who think if they get together with their pot smoking, tough guy neighbors,.. (or even just mentally OFF neighbors) and develop their little militias, then fight against and KILL local law enforcement agents over stupid things.. people who think that somehow by breaking the laws that this land has, that we are ALL better off because of the bravado of all of you are BONIFIED CERTIFIABLE NUTS!!!

Thank God you don't fit the 68 percentile of the Norm we know in this house. Because I think people who think that way are weird and way more dangerous than anyone I know. We don't hang with crazies. Thats a fact!!

You don't represent me or mine in any way, shape or form,.. nor will I ever allow anyone like you to. People who think as you do,..are the epitomy of why we fight for our right to bear arms. (Don't ever try breaking and entering into this home, and don't ever try to harm a law enforcement officer in front of us,.. we will defend them, not you!!)

As law abiding citizens all our lives, we have lived quite happily with the LOCAL LAW enforcement agencies. They are our friends and are willing to die for our safety. They know we have guns in our homes, and tell us to use them if we ever need to. We will.

We will never register those guns..and will fight any suggestion that we should have to. Any attempts at that. But I have a feeling you would imply that all of them are the bad guys right??

To realize there are people out there who lack common sense and carry guns,..is creepy!!! I mean, the mentality of some of the people I see post here at FR sometimes.. gives me and others I know here, the creeps!! They make the people who want to take away our right to bear arms look good, what with their mentality and way of thinking. At times they are more of a threat to our sovereignty than the anti gun people. Because many times the radical fringe are more crazy than the anti gun people. Scary!!! In other words.. we can "educate" the anti-gun people.. but the militia mentality are friggin nuts!!

We are proud NRA members..and proud Vets.

So go crawl back into the hole you came out of. I never respected or ever agreed with anything you have EVER stated here in this forum. I state that Vehemently and with the greatest conviction!!!

President Bush is an awesome President. In case you didn't know.. Texas has a right to carry law. One that he governed over. It didn't create people shooting people in church as anti-gun advocates said it would. In fact,.. murder rates dropped. The criminal knew the good guy was packing.

He will be a wonderuful advocate for LIFE. Just watch.

I'm sick to death of the whiners.. "wahhh wahhhhh" who keep saying he hasn't done enough in his FIRST YEAR!!!!

No President in our Nations history has had to face the kind of threat he is facing on our own shores.

I have no doubt he is going to do just fine. But then.. I happen to see the glass as 3/4 full!! Open your mind, if your able..and you might just learn something.

AFter watching your posts for several years here,.. I know that is near impossible, but I will continue to hope. There are people who will bitch and moan about everything until the day they die. I think you probably fit the bill in that regard. People who are soooo intelligent. Who could run this country better... ROFLMAO

[Protagoras]

Admitting where you were wrong is the fourth step. ;-)

I can go with that. So let the guy start at step four.

(hint, it ain't gonna happen) :-)

[jaime1959]

Amen, brother!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

LOL.. ok.. we'll just have to arm wrestle for whose buying the Guinness!!! ;o)

And yes.. even more so after witnessing the Clintons, the Gipper will remain in our hearts forever!! Nancy has garnered our respect and admiration too. She is taking care of him so lovingly,.. with such respect and dignity for him. I can't imagine what she is going through. It has to be heart and gut wrenching.

FRegards friend!!! Four more years...and we retire and travel the US. :o) We'll sip Guinness together yet!!

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

Add to my "reading list" the bookmarks on your profile page. My opinion,.. another paranoid flunky. Get a life and a clue.

[Vets_Husband_and_Wife]

I'm not shocked. You couldn't refute one specific argument. I would turn tail and run if I was whipped too. Or maybe you should just admit it.

You know,..some of us actually have a life. One function that has been removed unfortunately, is that you could click on "TO" and see what post a person was referring to. That ability no longer exists. So I must let you assume I tucked tail and ran. I don't have time to "educate" you. I don't have the time you do obviously.. to COPY AND PASTE.

I assure you, I'am learned. I do read..and guess what? I developed my own opinion and interpretations of those reads when I was done. I'am blessed with common sense, and the ability of independent, cognitive, rational thought.

It has been enlightening (to say the least).. to see the profile pages of you and Ragin1. Very interesting indeed!!

As I ended my debate with Ragin1, I will now endeavor to do likewise with you... "Get a life.. get a clue!!"

[snopercod]

I have the "Acid Test" article on my hard drive. I read it and then saved it there in 1997 (not that anybody cares).

So where is Edward Krug these days? Probably shoveling frozen dog $hit in Nome, Alaska.

I'm so sick of the "good guys" always losing.

[snopercod]

I forgot to thank you for your well written original post.

Thanks, and bttt.

[AAABEST]

I assure you, I'am learned. I do read..and guess what? I developed my own opinion and interpretations of those reads when I was done.

Uh huh.

[thrcanbonly1]

As long as a hundred of us remain alive we will never be subject to tyrannical domination, because it is not for glory or for riches or honours that we fight, but for freedom alone which no worthy man loses except with his life. Taken from the “Declaration of Arbroath” 1320

[Southack]

I enjoyed your #164. Not much of substance managed to respond to post #44, as you noted.

Typical.

There's a reasonable chance that one or two of the "real hard core" posters are really Lefties in disguise, pretending that Republicans "aren't Conservative enough for them" in order to sow dissent into our ranks.

Heck, one of the posts on this thread lamented that Iceland would be the last "White nation", and the other hard core posters glossed over that sort of overt racism as if they'd use such language in everyday conversations with Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics. That sort of bait has DU written all over it. I'm here in the middle of Red Neck central and no one talks like that even here in rural Alabama. It's like DU sends over some hacks who have a concept of "conservatives" taken right out of 1950's Selma.

But I suspect that even such obvious hit pieces will get a few pathetic followers.

White Power! < BARF - GAG >

The guy doesn't even know what race I am and he's shouting White Power at me.

Ick.

[AAABEST]

In all of your poorly written, unibomber-esque posts you've said alomst nothing except to insult everyone who disagrees with you.

Because a person may be honestly uncomfortable with large government programs promoted by this administration they're "paranoid", "whiners" and all kinds of other derogatory names.

We're not disruptors, freaks or anything of the sort. We just haven't supplanted our conservative philosophy with hero worship. Many of us find many good qualities in GWB and haven't given up on him, but we realize that all leaders must be scrutinized. None are Christ figures and GWB is not the cute Beatle.

You talk about the shredding of the bill of rights yet seemingly have no problem with a document that literally does just that by voiding the Forth Amendment. After all it's being done by a nice guy. When he re-authorizes the assault weapons ban, even though you're a "life long member of the NRA" you'll support him because he's the quaterback of your team.

Just admit that you agree with all of the spending and big government initiatives at the top of this post, so the rest of us could consider you intellectually honest. I don't think you have the nads to do that.

In other words you don't mind big spending and intrusive government as long as you're a fan of the person who's promoting such. Believe it or not I and others have been a big fan of his for a long time, but in your pathology you would never know that.

All you've done so far is attack the messengers with base insults and horrid grammar. You haven't told us whether you think the education bill was a good idea or not. Or maybe tell us if you don't think the Patriot Act is contrary to the Forth Amendment. You people are just throwing tantrums.

These are valid conservative debates from valid people. You crack-heads called a state delegate who has been active in the GOP for over 30 YEARS insulting names.

Futhermore, quit pinging me for God's sake. My non-response to your rants has been intentional as I don't feel you have anything to add to the conversation.

[Southack]

"Because a person may be honestly uncomfortable with large government programs promoted by this administration they're "paranoid", "whiners" and all kinds of other derogatory names."

Oh, aren't you just rich with irony.

To wit:

You crack-heads called a state delegate ...

675 posted on 2/1/02 4:10 PM Pacific by AAABEST

OK, I've been nice, are we back to honest debate now, or are you still a member of my goofball list?

532 posted on 1/31/02 12:52 PM Pacific by AAABEST

Happy? I'll be sure to tell everyone who thinks you're on angel dust, herion, crack and LSD (at the same time) that you've declared yourself victorious and it's time to stop the debate now.

540 posted on 1/31/02 1:17 PM Pacific by AAABEST

Did your parents boink your head into solid objects when you were young?

546 posted on 1/31/02 1:33 PM Pacific by AAABEST

Our conversation ends now. I'd get more honest thoughtful debate from a damn turnip.

562 posted on 1/31/02 2:20 PM Pacific by AAABEST

I've quit responding to the southhack poster.
I think he might be a child. I'm not being sarcastic, we may have been arguing with an actual kid, which would explain a lot.

566 posted on 1/31/02 2:27 PM Pacific by AAABEST

Your neurotic hissy fits are a great source of amusment around here ...

Then again, flat earthers usually aren't very aware of their surroundings. You're forgiven.

407 posted on 1/31/02 5:49 AM Pacific by AAABEST

M2C, you made poo-poo in your dipey again!

481 posted on 1/31/02 10:28 AM Pacific by AAABEST

[Revel]

Well I live with the knowledge that in the eyes of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Samuel Adams, And a the whole host of founders....That they would call you the radical ones. They would would find you apauling- Not me!

What you will have to live with in the end is that you were greatly responsible for bringing the mighty USA down. All your efforts that you have put forth mean nothing if you do not do it in the name of Freedom, Liberty, and Justice.

[Revel]

Oh by the way. You may want to check your own profile:

Vets_Husband_and_Wife member since November 8th, 2000

[Revel]

Well Ok...I see your argument in the first paragraph of your homepage that you have been here longer. Quite personally I would have no desire to read the profile of someone that fights only for party's and not for patriotic principles.