Houstonians Debate: Was Baxter 'Vince Fostered'?

NewsMax ^ | January 26, 2002 | Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

[MeekOneGOP]

NewsMax.com

 

Saturday Jan. 26, 2002; 10:30 a.m. EST

Houstonians Debate: Was Baxter 'Vince Fostered'?

News that ex-Enron executive Cliff Baxter had been found shot to death ignited a firestorm of speculation on Friday, and nowhere was the debate more intense than on talk radio in Baxter's hometown of Houston, Texas.

"I would say it's about 60/40 that people down here think he may have been Vince Fostered," said KPRC radio host Chris Baker Saturday morning.

Suspicions intensified when police rushed Baxter's body from his late model Mercedes where it was found in a Houston suburb to a local funeral home without further examination, the Texas radio talker noted.

But then "the Justice of the Peace in the area decided he was going to be much more thorough," Baker told WABC radio's John Gambling in New York. "So now the body's going to go for autopsy and that cooled down a lot of that, maybe-this-guy-was-murdered thing."

Still, questions continue to swirl, he said.

"You know, there's a saying that you can always blame a dead man so - (while) I truly believe it's a suicide, the rumors are going to start," Baker predicted.

The KPRC host said that any attempt to make Baxter Enrongate's fall guy would be complicated by his image as a straight shooter. "It would be strange to see (Baxter's colleagues) point the finger because this guy did have a reputation for boldly speaking with former Enron CEO Jeff Skilling and protesting against a lot of (the company's) business practices."

Houston police have so far declined to release the contents of a suicide note found in Baxter's car. But ABC News reported Friday night that several coworkers said the ex-Enron executive had expressed distress over the prospect of having to testify against his former colleagues in upcoming Congressional hearings.

Read more on this subject in related Hot Topics:

Enron

[HoustonCurmudgeon]

Why would anyone shoot themself in a turning lane of traffic on a public street when normally one would do it in the privacy of their own home, their driveway, an alley, a deserted parking lot or park?

Here I agree with you, I have no idea why. What I am saying is that I know that road and if I was going to off someone I would NOT do it there. There is just too much traffic.

[Slyfox]

When Baxter left Enron he was forced to sell his stock.

[Slyfox]

Your theory will take hold if another Enron executive or insider shows up dead. Personally, I just blame Clinton like everybody else.

An Arthur Anderson worker was found dead from a "suicide" in December. He worked on the Enron deal.

[ejo]

Did the officer note whether the left turn signal was on? was the driver sitting erectly or was he slumped forward over the wheel that made him suspicious to further check the car....Could one rationalize that perphaps there was someone in the back seat, and at the appropriate time did his dastardly act...leaving the car locked and sped away in another vehicle....Uh! I feel like perry mason .....

[chantal7]

Do you have a link for the Andersen employee that was found in his van in Dec., shot, presumed a suicide? Please post it? That's what I was talking about before yet I hadn't gotten anymore info but the bare bones like what you posted. :)

[Slyfox]

Gunshot caused death of Denver consultant

[PeaceBeWithYou]

clintron(sorry I still can't capitalize it even when it's the first word in the sentence) is a fitting and apt description.

The more I research into Enron's 3,500+ subsidiaries, partnerships, and affilliates, the more that is true. While my primary focus has been the contributions of the "subs" a surprising number of FOB's(Friends of bill) and FOH's(Friends of hillary) are popping up.

Another interesting thing I have turned up is that while on the surface Enron Corp's donations appear to have a Republican slant(62-38%), they are below the norms, about half of the companies that supported Republicans did so at 100% levels, and most of the other half were at 90% or better. The Enron subs tend to support the Rat's more heavily the further removed from the Enron name you get. Even the Rat infested movie/TV and the computer electronics industries gave 40% to Republicans.

If you're interested in resarching this kind of thing(or if you'd like to help) Opensecrets.org is an excellent resource, and it also will affect(or should) your buying habits. In area's where I have no brand preference, if I know that the company donates or supports the Rats, they don't get my bucks, as they don't deserve them. The best way to defeat the Rats is to not fund them, or their supporters. With resources like Opensecrets, ignorance is no excuse.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

Uhmmmm...Isn't Palm Royale the road that runs by the Sweetwater Country Club? At 2:30AM it wouldn't be that busy, would it? Even the cop didn't think anything of the car sitting in the turn cut out on his first pass, only when it was still there 15 minutes later did he check it out further. All this occured just blocks from Baxter's home on Ellicot.

There was a report on one of the TV channels that two bullets were fired from the .38 revolver, only one of which struck Baxter, and wasn't found to have exited the car, although it had exited Baxter. Too many questions for it to be a simple suicide. Could be some foul play involved, and that's why they are following up on it now.

[MeekOneGOP]

I heard on the news last night (Channel 2 10 pm) that the authorities noticed that while there was an exit wound from the body, no evidence of an bullet exiting the car or lodged in the car. This could explain why they decided to look into the matter further.

---

What is the call letters of this station? Is it a Houston station??

[Roy Tucker]

Here is an article from 18 October, 2000. I suspect Mr. Baxter had never failed at anything in his life. With the revenues spouted in the article below, I have visions of Ken Lay (like Dr. Evil in Austin Powers, pinkie between teeth, saying "One trillion dollars"). When did they know their accounting made no sense?

Enron Promotes Cliff Baxter to Vice Chairman. Issue: Oct 18, 2000

HOUSTON, Oct. 18 /PRNewswire/ --

Enron Corp. (NYSE: ENE) announced today that J. Clifford Baxter has been promoted to vice chairman of the company.

"Cliff is a key member of the team that has built Enron's highly successful wholesale business," said Kenneth Lay, Enron chairman and CEO. "His promotion will facilitate an even greater focus on extending that business model and continuing to increase Enron's return on invested capital."

Baxter, a native of Amityville, N.Y., received a bachelor's degree with honors from New York University and an MBA from Columbia University, where he was valedictorian. He joined Enron in 1991 and was chairman and CEO of Enron North America prior to being named chief strategy officer for Enron Corp. in June 2000.

Enron is one of the world's leading electricity, natural gas and communications companies. The company, with revenues of $40 billion in 1999 and $60 billion for the first nine months of 2000, produces electricity and natural gas, develops, constructs and operates energy facilities worldwide, delivers physical commodities and financial and risk management services to customers around the world, and is developing an intelligent network platform to facilitate online business. Fortune magazine has named Enron "America's Most Innovative Company" for five consecutive years, the top company for "Quality of Management" and the second best company for "Employee Talent." In addition, Enron ranks in the top quarter of Fortune's "Best 100 Companies to Work For in America." Enron's Internet address is www.enron.com. The stock is traded under the ticker symbol "ENE".

[Lloyd227]

"...The chances are 99.99999% that this was a suicide...

Please share with us the information you base this statement on. I hope we're not including, "Because the coroner said so" and calling this evidence.

The only facts I've seen released would make a pretty short list.
- 1: a man is dead of a gunshot wound
- 2: a gun is found nearby
- 3: a note exists, contents not released

These known facts would support any number of scenarios. Any statement that goes as far as "99.999% suicide" must be supported by additional facts.

[Dave S]

Why would anyone shoot themself in a turning lane of traffic on a public street when normally one would do it in the privacy of their own home, their driveway, an alley, a deserted parking lot or park?

Yeah thats right. Why not traumatize the wife and kids by doing it at home so their last thought of you is seeing your brains blown all over your desk. Nice mess for your wife and kids to clean up too (good for them, teach them character). Do you think your family is going to want to remain in that house with those memories?

If you start with the premise that suicide is not a rational act, then why are you forcing rationality on the location that a person choose for his suicide? On the other hand, killing yourself in a median would be a good way to make sure that the body was found quickly and didnt rot somewhere for days.

[Dave S]

There was a report on one of the TV channels that two bullets were fired from the .38 revolver, only one of which struck Baxter, and wasn't found to have exited the car, although it had exited Baxter. Too many questions for it to be a simple suicide. Could be some foul play involved, and that's why they are following up on it now

So this is the TV report that others were talking about? Lets see if I understand this right, two shots fired from the .38 but only only one hit Baxter and they cant find the other bullet.

If there is only one bullet found in the car, how do they know the gun was fired twice? Ive heard of no witnesses reporting gun shots. Are you telling me all this conspiracy is based on the fact that two out of the six chambers in the revolver are empty? Did anyone ever think of the possibilty that he didnt load all six chambers or at some point in the past he fired off one round. Gee my semi-auto has a 17 round clip but I seldom have all 17 rounds in it, does that mean I fired the missing three or four rounds?

[Triple]

"Gee my semi-auto has a 17 round clip..."

Question: What is the make and model?

TIA

[PeaceBeWithYou]

If there is only one bullet found in the car, how do they know the gun was fired twice?

So far as is known, there have been no bullets found in the car.

Ive heard of no witnesses reporting gun shots.

A .38 fired outside is no more than a firecracker or a backfire(a backfire might be louder), inside a closed up Mercedes it would be as quite or quieter than one fired inside your neighbors house, which isn't much of a report.

I don't, nor do any of my neighbors, nor anyone I know of here in Texas, call the cops every time I hear a backfire, firecracker or a possible gunshot, but those who do are well known to the cops.

Are you telling me all this conspiracy is based on the fact that two out of the six chambers in the revolver are empty?

Conspiracy? I think speculative discussion, or even analysis is a better description of what you have here.

Did anyone ever think of the possibilty that he didnt load all six chambers or at some point in the past he fired off one round.

Shell casings don't evaporate out of a cylinder of a revolver, and unless you pick them up or have a catcher they will be found after a semi-auto is fired as well.

As to how the police could tell if 2 shots had been fired recently from the revolver, I would think that if the gun had 4(or 3 if it was a 5 shot S&W)live rounds and 2 spent rounds in the cylinder that you could be relatively sure that 2 shots had been fired out of the weapon. When loading a revolver you don't normally put empty shells into it, nor do you leave them in it.

Gee my semi-auto has a 17 round clip but I seldom have all 17 rounds in it, does that mean I fired the missing three or four rounds?

Nope, but unless you pick up your brass and flee the scene, which very few do, then it can be determined how many shots you fired, regardless of how many you had in your clip.

[StolarStorm]

Yeah, but you can do a hell of a lot of shooting in 15 minutes - and I doubt it was police - probably a private patrol. I don't know of any police agency that has the manpower to patrol ritsy neighborhoods on a 15 minute cycle. They are much tooooooo busy with the bad side of town.

No they aren't busy. Houston cops don't go in the bad part of town at all. I have to drive through some of those and I HAVE NEVER SEEN A COP. EVER.

If you go into Kingwood you will see plenty... all busy writing out tickets. They don't solve crimes... they collect money for the city. They are tax collectors now.

[1L]

It wasn't about him testifying against others, it was about him getting nailed as one of the main reasons Enron collapsed.

Will you stop with the reasoned argument. This post is for those that want to believe in anything but reason. For some reason, way too many people on this forum have relieved themselves of their intellect on this issue, and without a shred of even a hint at an allegation (never mind any evidence) they are willing to engage in the absurd.

Would someone please explain the following to me. How can all of the following take place: since the media has all but ignored the Clinton angle on this story, and Clinton firmly believes he is untouchable under any circumstances (thus he has nothing to fear from an investigation), and Clinton no longer has the FBI obstructing justice and running interference, and this hit requires the Sugar Land police and probably the State Troopers to be covering up a murder without any reason or incentive, and the Harris County authorities to falsely rule this a suicide, again without any reason or authority, and probably one or two other things...

[PeaceBeWithYou]

Sugar Land is in Fort Bend County. Why would Harris County have any involvement?

Nice strawman attempt too, but no dice...;-)

[eno_]

a native of Amityville, N.Y., received a bachelor's degree with honors from New York University and an MBA from Columbia University, where he was valedictorian.

This guy has Wall Street Rocket Science Master of the Universe written all over him. There is no way he was not designing Enron, as opposed to fretting about the accountants. If he was not at Enron, he would be designing amazing derivatives (leaving the risk management to somone else) at some other spectacular crash waiting to happen.

[texgal]

What is the call letters of this station? Is it a Houston station??

Channel 2 KPRC in Houston 10:00 pm news. The same date that they found Mr. Baxter in his car. Linda Lorrell reported that although it appeared to be a suicide, officials on the scene reported seeing a bullet exit wound from the body that no bullet or bullet exit hole was found in/on the auto Mr. Baxter's body was found in.

This report caught my attention because all day long I had heard on the radio that it was declared a suicide and this was the only time I have heard this mentioned.

Did anyone else in the Houston area see the 10:00 pm news on Channel 2 that evening?