Posted on 01/20/2002 8:45:33 AM PST by Demidog
I understood the point. What is it you don't understand about that except you don't like the answer.
"Rabbi" Weiss is obviously about as ignorant of history as it is possible to be
What? Are you trying to insinuate that the Jews have never lived in peace with their neighbors?
No you didn't. There was no disagreement whatsoever over what the Torah said. That is why I wish you'd stick to our disagreements and stay out of the others.
And he also said the Jews and Arabs have always lived in peace. Now I ask you again, notwithstanding that he has patently lied about this, or that he is woefully ignorant and the fact two Jewish posters have already stated to you his Torah version is not correct, why do you insist on parroting his nonsense?
I think what he is saying is that Zionism is in and of itself a violation of the Torah and a rejection of G-d.
Can you actually post two more contradictory statements than you just have in the above?
What next? Norman Finkelstein? David Irving? More from this fringe-character 'Rabbi'? Nutcakes all.
Yeah, I'm familiar with the Orthodox Judaic argument against the theological validity of Zionism.
I try to avoid commenting on it for two reasons:
1.) Other Orthodox Jews say Zionism is as kosher as motzah. So it's an intramural spat in an area where my expertise is limited.
2.) My inclination would be to say, "The rabbi is right, Zionism is theologically invalid... you should all become Christians!!" But that would probably sound self-serving coming from a Christian and all...
...Mainly, the anti-Zionist theological argument, like the pro-Zionist theological argument, I do not consider particularly relevant to the legal validity of Israeli claims to the West Bank (aka Judea and Samaria). Those matters have more to do with post 1897-developments onward, than with Torah and Talmud. (I.E., even if Zionism is a theologically invalid form of Judaism, Zionist Israel has proper legal right to exist and proper legal claim to its current territories).
None of this would invalidate the human right of Palestinians in Ramallah (or for that matter, Jews in Haifa) to establish a new State, per the universal Human Rights detailed in the Declaration of Independence. Trouble is, for such Revolution to be just, the Revolutionists muct be both revolting against oppression, and proposing a government which respected those Rights detailed in the Declaration of Independence. The current intifada just isn't fitting that bill.
He did? Where did he say always?
LOL. OK. But I hope you understand that I am not questioning the legal right of Israel to exist.
And in Palestine alone our grandparent have testified to the fact that the Muslims and Jews lived in peace and harmony up until the advent of Zionism.
If this is not ALWAYS then you better take some comprehension lessons. That is, Jews and Arabs lived in peace UP until ZIONISM. Therefore, Zionism is to blame. Hooey.
Which "his version" are you talking about? I have stated already that I am not a scholar of the Torah. So I have pretty much refrained from making any statements about it. The disagreements that I have had on this thread so far are WHAT he has claimed as opposed to whether it is true or not.
Monkeyshine and I, if there were any real disagreements, have been discussing the substance of his statements rather than what the Torah actually says. That is where you came into error.
If you advance a position and then purport to justify it then put up or shut up.
Monkeyshine and I, if there were any real disagreements, have been discussing the substance of his statements rather than what the Torah actually says
And yet you continued to parrot his version as if you didn't believe a word monkeyshine or the Jewish posters asserted. Is this your version of the "catch me if you can" argument?
What position have I advanced? Do you even know?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.