What about victim's past in Rink Rage killing?

Boston Globe, Mike Savage ^ | 1-11-02 | kurtz

[wardaddy]

CAMBRIDGE - The Reading father accused of savagely beating to death another man over rough play at their sons' hockey practice was a ''gentle giant'' who rightfully defended himself when the other father attacked him twice, his lawyer said yesterday during closing arguments in Thomas Junta's manslaughter trial.

[Alberta's Child]

Not exactly skeletons, but a criminal record of his own (assault, etc., maybe even including assault on a police officer).

Just some information that's been floating around the news the last couple of days. I'll post it back here when I get more details.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I see this case as one of whether the correct amount of self defense was used (if it was indeed determined to be self defense), i.e. did the defendant just throw a few too many punches or did he stop as soon as the other guy was obviously in retreat or unable to defend himself.

[Swede Girl]

I tend to side with Junta on this. I think the press and Costin's lawyers are using his size against him and it is wrong. Once the facts really come out on this, I believe that Junta will be proven to be right that it was a form of self-defense. He was, after all, arguing against violence in the rink.

From what I have read and heard, Costin was an aggressive hot-head. He probably deserved a punch, but it is unfortunate that it went this far. Just my observations thus far....but my sympathies go more for Junta, regardless of the unfortunate death. My guess is that he will get a short prison sentence in the end.

[Southflanknorthpawsis]

Ditto to your post #23. No one can know for sure and are left to judgments. If I had to bet, the jury will either acquit or convict Junta of involuntary manslaughter.

[SamAdams76]

I'm 6'3 and about 260 pounds, close to Junta's size. This controversy over the size disparity between Junta and Costin is nonsense. If I got into a fistfight, I would much rather fight another big lumbering slob like myself than to fight some wiry 150-pounder who works out and keeps in shape.

Anyway, I believe the judge was wrong not to allow the information about Costin to come out. Knowing that Costin has had mental problems and also problems controlling his temper should be fair game. Junta's story (that he was cold-cocked by Costin) would be much more believable in this light.

As for Junta, the verdict should come out today. I do not believe this guy should do any serious jail time. He's never had any kind of criminal record before. He was provoked and he lost control. Obviously he has some responsibility here but he is not a murderer in my opinion.

I only had one serious fist-fight as an adult and during those 15 seconds that punches were thrown, I was hitting him as hard as I could and was trying to hurt him. Fifteen minutes afterwards, we were shaking hands and have been friendly ever since.

[Swede Girl]

He may have been concerned for their safety, given the earlier incident where his son got an elbow in the face.

Junta was a concerned father, and was concerned about the safety of his child, as well as the others. Nothing can match the emotion of a parent protecting a child.

[wardaddy]

Slamming an already unconscious fellow's head onto the ice or continuing to pound on him has crossed the line of self defense hasn't it? I do know of a couple of instances where folks have been seriously hurt by a couple of punches thrown precisely...and while both parties were still standing.

I was boxing with my dad when I was about 15. He was about 6'4" and 240 lbs. and he was a world class athelete with a jaw like Chuck Conner's in the "Rifleman". I was a bout 165 lbs. at the time. Anyhow I stepped into a right hook and bam...curtain time. I woke up on the carpet in a small pool of blood about 10 seconds later. All with us both wearing 16 oz Hutch gloves. I shudder to think of that without the gloves. Ouch!!......8 stitches later...you should have seen my dad's embarassment at the emergency room when they asked what happened. Today he might have been arrested.

Sidenote: We boxed later on when he was early 60s a few years before he passed away. I was 36 or so and he still gave me more than I could handle.

Never underestimate "old guys".

[wardaddy]

A couple of years in joint sounds fair to me....given the what I've gleaned from the case. Of course the prosecution will ask for the moon. Unfortunately, nothing will satisfy the victim's family.

[jimkress]

It's not self defense when your 'assailant' is lying unconscious on the ice and you pick up his head and slam it down in the ice as hard as you can. That is what this 'gentle giant' did. That is why he should be convicted of voluntary manslaughter.

He should have been charged with, and convicted of, second degree murder.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I don't know the circumstances. I just gave my 2 cents worth and qualified my statement with "IF IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE".

[wardaddy]

I'm almost ashamed to admit it but I had a row a year and a half ago at age 43. I own self storage facilities and an irate renter who owed me money came over the counter. His mistake...he was about 22 and thought I was an old fart (because i look like one I suppose). I won handily and didn't overdo it. He ran off and got the cops. They almost arrested me for assault....in my own place of business defending myself!!!...can you believe that?

I must admit....it felt damn good. I was walking around all full of myself for a day or two till my wife "straightend" me out and brought me back to the reality that I really am a middle aged man with a load of kids to boot and I oughta be ashamed of myself and act responsible and all that sort of admonition.

[wardaddy]

There is a conflict in testimony as to when the victim was rendered unconscious.

[wardaddy]

Something besides a "best caliber" thread. Any thoughts?

[07055]

I go back to the defendant's testimony that he only hit the guy because "he wouldn't let go of my hand."

If the defendant's hand does not show signs of this "death grip," then that means the defendant is lying.

He is probably also lying about not having put knee on the guy's chest to prevent him from moving.

How can you have self defense when you are planting your knee on someone's chest to prevent them from escaping? And punching their head into the ground so many times that his brain turned into the consistency of tooth paste?

[norton]

Yeah, it crossses a line.
And if you can remember where that line is when it's got to that point you are a better saint than most of us.
Once it gets started, fight 'till the other guy ain't in a position to get up and do it again.
Strong odds that Costin would have done the same or worse had he been on top.

[abandon]

Unless the dad knew of the other guy's history and acted the way he did in light of it, I don't think it's relevant when considering the level of force he used to counter whatever force was presented to him. I don't think the dad knew it.

With a few significant exceptions (like in your home), you generally have a duty to retreat and meet force only with like force.

I think.

[D-fendr]

It's the wiry ones you have to watch out for. But this big guy caught his opponet with his skates on and managed to kill him. I'd vote involuntary manslaughter.

[wardaddy]

My feelings before the info I heard yesterday were not as mixed on this case. Folks with a record like the victim learn early in life that most folks simply will not fight back and back off or cower. Once a bully learns this , he will continue this until he learns his lesson. Unfortunately for the victim, he resorted to the old tried and true form with someone who reacted differently. I have witnessed this over and over in my life. Now does this mean the accused is innocent? No...but it also lays some of the blame at the victim's feet for his own demise.

[wardaddy]

duty to retreat

Duty to whom??

You must have grown up in a nicer more enlightened neighborhood than I.

[wardaddy]

Yes it is the wirey ones. Smaller guys who like to pick issues with bigger guys are called giant killers. It's usually a win/win for the little guy. If he wins fairly he's top dog. If he hits the big guy with a stick then it's ok because the other guy is too big. On the other hand if the big guy wins then he's victimizing a "little guy".

In this instance, I'm not sure but I would opt for involuntary manslaughter at worst.