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HP customers furious over missing XP recovery disks - If you break it, buy another one...
Silicon.com ^ | Thursday 10th January 2002 12:43pm | Sally Watson

Posted on 01/10/2002 6:46:47 AM PST by colette_g

Angry Hewlett-Packard customers have forced the computer manufacturer into a U-turn after it scrapped recovery disks for its latest range of Pavilion PCs.

HP ditched the standard backup CDs in favour of installing Windows XP recovery files on a partition on the hard drive, prompting scores of users to complain.

Customers posted irate messages on HP's technical support site and bombarded the manufacturer with phone calls demanding to be sent the disks.

One customer wrote: "I really think that HP is putting out a raw deal when you buy their new XP systems and you don't get any recovery CDs. What happens if the warranty runs out and the hard drive physically dies?"

Another Pavilion customer returned her machine in disgust. "One person from [HP] support said I would have to purchase a retail version of XP if my hard drive failed. Another said I could purchase a hard drive from HP with XP preinstalled, but could not tell me how much it would cost," she wrote.

Customers complained that the move could jeopardise recovery following damage to the hard drive and would also prevent deliberate partitioning of the drive to add a second OS like Linux.

According to HP's product description recovery CDs are included in the Pavilion package. But when silicon.com reader, Ian Rowe, contacted HP he was initially told that CDs for the model did not exist.

An email from customer support told him: "HP recommends that you do not replace the hard disk as it is preloaded with Windows XP. The operating system will be lost if the hard disk is replaced. If you further wish to replace the hard disk, please purchase a retail version of Windows XP from your reseller and install it on the new hard drive."

Rowe told silicon.com: "From the moment I bought the PC, to the current time, it is not mentioned that you will not be able to upgrade the hard disk in the PC. Certainly nothing in any agreement that states that I am not entitled to do so without purchasing a new copy of XP."

Contrary to HP's advice, Microsoft claims that even if XP recovery files on the hard drive are damaged or lost, the company can use its authentication technology to identify legitimate users and replace the OS for free.

Under pressure from angry customers, HP began sending out CDs in late December. But according to a spokeswoman for HP UK, recovery disks will only be provided for customers who complain and will still not be included with the original PC.

"The recovery data is now stored on the hard drive, and you're not usually going to lose the hard drive if it crashes," she said.

But this explanation is unlikely to pacify angry customers.

"I bought HP because they stood for quality and getting a good piece of equipment for the value," one Pavilion user wrote on HP's message board. "When cutting corners like this starts affecting the morale and attitude of customers, then nobody wins."

Have you had problems with HP? Or recovering Windows XP? Let us know by posting a reader comment below or emailing editorial@silicon.com


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
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To: Harrison Bergeron
You almost had us. A 2500 word post and you negate every word with two sentences. Anybody who's ever tried to contact Microsoft directly for any reason whatsoever knows exactly what I mean.

It's a toll-free number. And you don't even have to speak to a human being if you don't want to.
141 posted on 01/10/2002 12:21:15 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: razorback-bert
What exactly is substantially different? A new hard drive? A new motherboard? Both of which I upgrade during a year. I admit I am not the ordinary user.

Dunno. But in either case, MS is not going to refuse your ability to reactivate. All you have to do is either activate online or call an 800-number -- either automated or operator. No big deal. The point of this exercise is not to prevent you from using the product: It's to make it more difficult for pirates to use the same damn serial number on thousands of machines.
142 posted on 01/10/2002 12:23:29 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: MarkL
"When "Geeks" or "Techs" talk about what OS/HW/SW is better, it's between them: They shouldn't expect "real people" to know or care which is better, or for that matter, what they're using!"

If a certain brand of stereo receiver or television shut down pending "reauthentication" of the purchasing agreement whenever a consumer added new components, i.e. DVD player or cable box, would "real people" who work for a living let the manufacturer get away with it? Why should we tolerate this for our computer? Especially if we've come to depend on it as an everyday appliance, as you argue?

Rarely on FR do we have the benefit of people arguing in favor of ignorance.

143 posted on 01/10/2002 12:25:30 PM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Bush2000
"It's a toll-free number. And you don't even have to speak to a human being if you don't want to."

For me, it's much simpler than that. I don't have to purchase Windows XP.

144 posted on 01/10/2002 12:27:45 PM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: razorback-bert
Is XP my OS or the computer's?

If it is mine, I should be able to use it on any computer I chose.

It's neither. The OS belongs to Microsoft! You are licensed to use it on that specific computer. The activation key on that little sticker is valid ONLY on that cpu!

Why does that matter? here's why...

I've got a client wiht about 1500 workstations, all running Windows NT Workstation. When they buy new systems, it's 50-100 at a time... In order to cut down on support and configuration time, they configure one system exacly the way they want it, and then using software called "Ghost," they are able to make exact duplicates of everything on the hard drive (applications, etc...) to 24 other systems at the same time, at high rates of speed (less than 20 minutes for all 24 systems!). Every machine that they bought had that "little sticker" for Windows NT Workstation on it, so they figured that they were OK... WRONG!!! Again, that activation key is ONLY valid on that one CPU, and an audit showed them that they were in violation of the license agreement! Even tough every system they bought had a legal, licensed copy of WinNT, it wasn't transferable to another system (by the agreement)! They had to go to MS and buy roughly 1500 (tranferable) corporate licenses of Windows NT Workstation!

Mark

145 posted on 01/10/2002 12:28:28 PM PST by MarkL
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To: rdb3
"That's an atrocious insult to all IT professionals (like myself) the world over."

No, it's reality, and if you either live in such a cloistered environment that you can't recognize it, or else personalize it because you won't face it, that changes nothing. Facts are immune to all external forces.

146 posted on 01/10/2002 12:28:40 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Harrison Bergeron
For me, it's much simpler than that. I don't have to purchase Windows XP.

Great. One less moron for MS to support.
147 posted on 01/10/2002 12:29:52 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Harrison Bergeron;bush2000
If a certain brand of stereo receiver or television shut down pending "reauthentication" of the purchasing agreement whenever a consumer added new components, i.e. DVD player or cable box, would "real people" who work for a living let the manufacturer get away with it? Why should we tolerate this for our computer? Especially if we've come to depend on it as an everyday appliance, as you argue?

Oh good grief.

Get back with us when you figure out the difference between hardware and software. Or, when you figure out how to replicate hardware out of the aether.

148 posted on 01/10/2002 12:32:46 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: MarkL
Even tough every system they bought had a legal, licensed copy of WinNT, it wasn't transferable to another system (by the agreement)! They had to go to MS and buy roughly 1500 (tranferable) corporate licenses of Windows NT Workstation!

That's a crappy way ro run a railroad.

AB

149 posted on 01/10/2002 12:33:39 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Don Joe
The answer to piracy of Microsoft products is to have people run Linux, eh?

Yes. And I'm only being half-facetious.

Microsoft became as popular as it did in large part due to widespread piracy of its software. They looked the other way for years, and only now do they seek to collect from the suckers who thought they were getting something for nothing.

The only software that absolutely can't be pirated is Free Software. Therefore, the only way to eliminate piracy is through the adoption of Free Software.

Yes, I'm being a bit of a wiseacre. So, sue me.

150 posted on 01/10/2002 12:42:05 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: mercy
Dear mercy

Sorry you feel that way I think that what I wrote was very insightful

Nowere this I tell people to go Linux or Unix .. Win 98 or ME are just fine and are user friendly to the home user. I would tell fokes to stay with them

Note I DID NOT CALL Win 98 or ME a OS for the sheeple did I?

Have you work with XP? compared it Win 98 or ME, XP is like working with handcuffs on, your locked in. Simple problems to fix in Win 98 or ME can be SOL in XP.

A simple upgrade can be a nightmare in XP.

It funny you used the terms "elite snobery", because I would say XP reflect the height of "elite snobbery" and total arrogance on the part of Microsoft

The average home use could do simple fixes and upgrades in 98 and ME

In XP the average home is going to get bit hard trying to do simple fixes and upgrades.

Locking in customer with proprietary software and locking out unauthorized hardware and software upgrades is not new and the what XP is all about.

If XP fly's the next step on Microsoft agenda be that you will not own the OS but "lease it"

The home use pay every year or month over the internet to be authorized to use the it or the OS turns off

151 posted on 01/10/2002 12:42:37 PM PST by tophat9000
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To: Don Joe
No, what it doesn't change is the fact that your statement was one of the most stupid I've read in my tenure at FR.

Are you saying that if Microsoft vanished that there wouldn't be any more talent to produce the products that Microsoft makes? If so, this doesn't make sense since Microsoft didn't come up with most of their entire product line! Or, are you saying that's impossible for the market to demand the fulfillment of the void?

You should seriously rethink your position on this one because the whole point of your assertion is obliterated by the market. The market is bigger than Microsoft. And the market tends to get what it wants.

152 posted on 01/10/2002 12:45:38 PM PST by rdb3
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To: Bush2000
Great. One less moron for MS to support."

There you go folks, that's the official Microsoft position - coming from a Microsoft employee - on customers with negative comments.

FYI, Bushy, I'm a licensed, paying Microsoft customer who was fine with Win 3.1, Win 98, and - currently - with his Win 2000 and MS Office products. But I draw the line with the Win XP authentication model. It's not worth two seconds of my down time to support such a piss poor concept.

I've got nothing bad to say about Bill Gates, and it wouldn't bother me in the least to see Microsoft double its earnings tomorrow. But seeing them employ mindless internet surfing drones like yourself to harass and ridicule legitimate criticism of their products just makes me wanna puke. I'll never understand such paranoid desperation in the face of such unprecedented success.

153 posted on 01/10/2002 12:47:38 PM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: B Knotts
"Microsoft became as popular as it did in large part due to widespread piracy of its software. They looked the other way for years, and only now do they seek to collect from the suckers who thought they were getting something for nothing."

That's utter rubbish. BG's BASIC interpreter was pirated from day one, and he took a serious stand against piracy from day one, and that's where the Hate Bill "movement" began -- and grew, like cancer. The ProtoWarezBoyz felt "entitled" to steal whatever bits they wanted, and they resented the owner when he stood up to them, so they've been exacting revenge ever since.

It's like the grocer who has a shoplifter arrested, and then the next morning finds all his windows busted.

"The only software that absolutely can't be pirated is Free Software. Therefore, the only way to eliminate piracy is through the adoption of Free Software."

I see a slogan forming here... "Fight Rape -- Outlaw Chastity!"

Tell me, does your life revolve around A Clockwork Orange?

154 posted on 01/10/2002 12:48:22 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: rdb3
[long, tiresome, just-don't-get-it, strawman-putting-words-in-my-mouth rant deleted]

"And the market tends to get what it wants."

Seems like if that was the case it wouldn't be screaming bloody murder over not being able to pirate its way to joy.

Tough break, eh?

155 posted on 01/10/2002 12:52:55 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: MarkL
Even tough every system they bought had a legal, licensed copy of WinNT, it wasn't transferable to another system (by the agreement)! They had to go to MS and buy roughly 1500 (tranferable) corporate licenses of Windows NT Workstation!

You make an excellent argument for migrating to Linux.

156 posted on 01/10/2002 12:53:57 PM PST by B Knotts
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To: Don Joe
"Get back with us when you figure out the difference between hardware and software. Or, when you figure out how to replicate hardware out of the aether."

It was an analogy. Sorry you didn't understand.

When the "real people" who "have jobs" can't access the gay chat rooms on AOL, they won't care whether the software or hardware is to blame. And they shouldn't, right? They're just "real people" who "have jobs."

157 posted on 01/10/2002 12:55:52 PM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: MarkL
****They had to go to MS and buy roughly 1500 (tranferable) corporate licenses of Windows NT Workstation!****

Now THAT'S marketing! HOO YAH! Take no prisoners.

158 posted on 01/10/2002 1:03:56 PM PST by mercy
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To: Bush2000
Using MS upgrade advisor:

my scanners, Dazzle, memory card reader and cameras are not compatibile. 26 programs are incompatibile.

I can see an upgrade being quite a pain in the rear for real.

159 posted on 01/10/2002 1:25:30 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Nice, huh?

WOW didnt know that ok ...thanx

Glad ive got my good ol win 98 ive been on pc's with XP and i dont like the way it works anyway !

160 posted on 01/10/2002 1:39:18 PM PST by ATOMIC_PUNK
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