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HP customers furious over missing XP recovery disks - If you break it, buy another one...
Silicon.com ^ | Thursday 10th January 2002 12:43pm | Sally Watson

Posted on 01/10/2002 6:46:47 AM PST by colette_g

Angry Hewlett-Packard customers have forced the computer manufacturer into a U-turn after it scrapped recovery disks for its latest range of Pavilion PCs.

HP ditched the standard backup CDs in favour of installing Windows XP recovery files on a partition on the hard drive, prompting scores of users to complain.

Customers posted irate messages on HP's technical support site and bombarded the manufacturer with phone calls demanding to be sent the disks.

One customer wrote: "I really think that HP is putting out a raw deal when you buy their new XP systems and you don't get any recovery CDs. What happens if the warranty runs out and the hard drive physically dies?"

Another Pavilion customer returned her machine in disgust. "One person from [HP] support said I would have to purchase a retail version of XP if my hard drive failed. Another said I could purchase a hard drive from HP with XP preinstalled, but could not tell me how much it would cost," she wrote.

Customers complained that the move could jeopardise recovery following damage to the hard drive and would also prevent deliberate partitioning of the drive to add a second OS like Linux.

According to HP's product description recovery CDs are included in the Pavilion package. But when silicon.com reader, Ian Rowe, contacted HP he was initially told that CDs for the model did not exist.

An email from customer support told him: "HP recommends that you do not replace the hard disk as it is preloaded with Windows XP. The operating system will be lost if the hard disk is replaced. If you further wish to replace the hard disk, please purchase a retail version of Windows XP from your reseller and install it on the new hard drive."

Rowe told silicon.com: "From the moment I bought the PC, to the current time, it is not mentioned that you will not be able to upgrade the hard disk in the PC. Certainly nothing in any agreement that states that I am not entitled to do so without purchasing a new copy of XP."

Contrary to HP's advice, Microsoft claims that even if XP recovery files on the hard drive are damaged or lost, the company can use its authentication technology to identify legitimate users and replace the OS for free.

Under pressure from angry customers, HP began sending out CDs in late December. But according to a spokeswoman for HP UK, recovery disks will only be provided for customers who complain and will still not be included with the original PC.

"The recovery data is now stored on the hard drive, and you're not usually going to lose the hard drive if it crashes," she said.

But this explanation is unlikely to pacify angry customers.

"I bought HP because they stood for quality and getting a good piece of equipment for the value," one Pavilion user wrote on HP's message board. "When cutting corners like this starts affecting the morale and attitude of customers, then nobody wins."

Have you had problems with HP? Or recovering Windows XP? Let us know by posting a reader comment below or emailing editorial@silicon.com


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
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To: Don Joe
I do remember a comment by Bill Gates that (not quite these words, but the intention is right) if someone had no intention of buying a particular type of software (i.e. operating system, spreadsheet), and was going to obtain a pirate copy, he would rather that person pirate a Microsoft product than a competitors. I think there is actually some kind of sense to that.
121 posted on 01/10/2002 11:31:16 AM PST by colette_g
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To: Don Joe
I do remember a comment by Bill Gates that (not quite these words, but the intention is right) if someone had no intention of buying a particular type of software (i.e. operating system, spreadsheet), and was going to obtain a pirate copy, he would rather that person pirate a Microsoft product than a competitors. I think there is actually some kind of sense to that.
122 posted on 01/10/2002 11:31:48 AM PST by colette_g
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To: Harrison Bergeron
"the installation routines on the recovery files are going to prompt for you to authenticate the installation S/N"

I think he means an image of C:\ onto CD and straight copy it back after a format and fdisk partition as a DR scheme. You shouldn't need a full install of DOS after a format to run fdisk. Or would you have to format and fdisk with the OS that is going to be copied to the drive? Would there be version problems?

123 posted on 01/10/2002 11:33:06 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: colette_g
"I believe they termed it their 'like a book' license."

I believe they did away with it too.

Borland was a bootstrap operation, and they did some asymmetrical warfare type marketing to establish their presence. Remeber "Frank Borland" the cartoon prospector, hawking the $39 Turbo Pascal compiler?

Try to get a $39 compiler from Borland today and see where it gets ya.

They did stir things up alright. MS's BASCOM compiler suddenly had the bottom drop out from under it, but they spun on a dime and came out with QuicBasic, in the same price range at Turbo Pascal.

Then Borland decided to sock it to Bellevue by releasing Turbo Basic, but, they learned their lesson when MS came out with Quick Pascal -- nicer than Turbo Pascal, and just as inexpensive (but notably more expensive than when TP was initially released).

Kahn made a giant sucking sound, and sold off TB, and MS let QP die on the vine.

The point of all this is that the "like a book" thing wasn't some grand gesture of altruism -- it was guerilla marketing plain and simple. No one makes money giving products away, unless it's carefully managed as a market share maneuver, and cast aside as soon as feasible.

124 posted on 01/10/2002 11:33:32 AM PST by Don Joe
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To: colette_g
"it only had < 5 applications available for it."

One of them was a fledgling online service named "AOL", but the dropped it like a hot potato as soon as they gained some tractio.

125 posted on 01/10/2002 11:36:30 AM PST by Don Joe
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To: Don Joe
"If Windows disappeared tonight, it would be the death of the entire industry, "

If you work for Microsoft, I'll call that hubris. If you don't, I'll just call it historical ignorance.

126 posted on 01/10/2002 11:36:51 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Don Joe
Argh, I'm drpng keystrkes:

"the dropped it like a hot potato as soon as they gained some tractio." should have been "they dropped it like a hot potato as soon as they gained some traction."

127 posted on 01/10/2002 11:38:27 AM PST by Don Joe
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To: B Knotts
My point exactly!


128 posted on 01/10/2002 11:40:18 AM PST by rdb3
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To: colette_g;bush2000
Sounds like an HP problem. How long before people show up on this thread saying it's a problem with XP? oops Too late.
129 posted on 01/10/2002 11:42:03 AM PST by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
"I think he means an image of C:\ onto CD"

A cheap and effective backup prodedure.

130 posted on 01/10/2002 11:44:42 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: EggsAckley
When they told her to send it back, they said they would ship her a prepaid shipping box. It took three weeks for the box to arrive; Lord only knows how long it will take for them to return the tower.

I will NEVER recommend an HP Pavillion to anyone, and I'm warrany authorized, and an authorized HP dealer! I have a client who bought all their PC's at BestBuy, and they had a hard drive failure (BTW, when HP said that if the drive crashes, you don't normally lose the "recovery partition," that's an out and out lie!). It took four months for them to get the warranty replacement! It was a stinking 20GB drive! After 24 days of waiting, I suggested that they buy a replacement drive, that I'd install it at no charge, then when the new drive came in, they'd keep it on a shelf as a spare. Just to get back up and running, that's what they did.

Please note that I don't think that Brios are too bad, and the Vectras and NetServers are terrific... It's just the Pavillions that are crap, with no support from HP.

Mark

131 posted on 01/10/2002 11:46:49 AM PST by MarkL
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To: Bush2000
"Those who upgrade their PC’s hardware substantially may be asked to reactivate. Reactivation for this reason is easy and can be completed by contacting Microsoft to obtain another confirmation ID."

You almost had us. A 2500 word post and you negate every word with two sentences. Anybody who's ever tried to contact Microsoft directly for any reason whatsoever knows exactly what I mean.

132 posted on 01/10/2002 11:50:35 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Publius6961
Pssst. A recovery disk may not be enough.

You bought and paid for an operating system and should be able to do a clean re-install.

Even if you have to call Big Brother Microsoft (which you would have to do) and ask "pretty please may I make my computer useful again?"

A "recovery" disk would not make a re-install possible.

When HP ships their recovery CD (usually CDs), it's keyed to the specific system. It has all of the drivers and applications that were originally installed by the factory on the system, and will restore it to the same state it was in the first time you used it. Of course you will lose all data, and any additional applications or updates that you installed, but HP is (or was) pretty good about their recovery CDs...

Mark

133 posted on 01/10/2002 11:51:40 AM PST by MarkL
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To: Don Joe
Ah, Turbo Pascal for $39 - them were the days! Delphi Professional costs a little bit more than that now!
134 posted on 01/10/2002 11:53:27 AM PST by colette_g
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To: colette_g
HP sucks. Ever try to get service for a palm top? No way, and they want you to pay $25 for an answer that doesn;t work.
135 posted on 01/10/2002 11:54:09 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Don Joe
If Windows disappeared tonight, it would be the death of the entire industry, and that's not because it's some imaginary "monopoly". It's because there's simply nothing else in its class, period.

That's an atrocious insult to all IT professionals (like myself) the world over.There's nothing wrong with having a preference for Microsoft's products (hence my disagreement over Microsoft with Dominic Harr), but it's an entirely different ballgame when you start speaking like you are on Microsoft's payroll.

I'd bet a penny to a $20 dollar bill that if (which won't happen) Microsoft went away overnight, the industry will see innovation like it has never seen before. That huge market gap must be filled, and there are more than enough savvry tech-people around the world to ensure that it will be filled. Again, the free market will absolutely demand that it be filled.

Period.


136 posted on 01/10/2002 11:58:11 AM PST by rdb3
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To: Bush2000
If the hardware is substantially different

What exactly is substantially different?

A new hard drive?

A new motherboard?

Both of which I upgrade during a year.

I admit I am not the ordinary user.

137 posted on 01/10/2002 12:02:07 PM PST by razorback-bert
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To: colette_g
I wonder if this is a result of Compaq's influence? They had the brilliant (NOT) idea of making the system's CMOS setup a disk based proogram rather than the normal ROM based. Therefore if your HD died you could access your basic system settings.

Either that, or this is just another way for Billy Gates to pad his XP numbers, not to mention his wallet. I suspect this HP idea was a trial balloon on M$' part, with HP being the fall guy.

138 posted on 01/10/2002 12:05:28 PM PST by AFreeBird
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To: mercy
You know, when you think about it ... calling the vast majority of the population sheeple is really elite snobery of the worst ilk. When one is talking about fools who voted for clintoon and still support him I suppose it is warranted but when speaking of OSs it really is insulting. We regular people have jobs. We have kids. We do not have the time to understand computers. Just like you do not have the time to understand brain surgery. Yet you think we should venture into the rarified air of Linux or Unix. This is not particularly insightful on your part.

I couldn't have said it better myself, and I am a network and systems engineer!

The simple fact is that computers have become a part of everyday life... Every company is now in two lines of business: Their primary business, and computer support! However, in many cases, the second line is nothing but a draw on productivity and resources for the company...

When "Geeks" or "Techs" talk about what OS/HW/SW is better, it's between them: They shouldn't expect "real people" to know or care which is better, or for that matter, what they're using! These are people who have a job, and it's NOT working on computers! The computer is supposed to enable them to do their job more efficently!

As an integrator of systems, my favorite type of installation is a new one, where people haven't gotten used to doing things "their way." I can say, "to check your email, click on this icon. To check your schedule, click here. The write a letter, click here..." They shouldn't need to know what OS/network/SW they're using: It shouldn't matter. What matters is that it lets them do their job!

Mark

139 posted on 01/10/2002 12:12:29 PM PST by MarkL
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To: razorback-bert
Funny you shoud mention both of the components that will unquestionably trigger the re-authentication shut down. I wonder what Microsoft's idea of "acceptable down time" is for the user who's attempting to contact a drone in Redmond for a new code?
140 posted on 01/10/2002 12:14:04 PM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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