US fears Iraq radar can see stealth plane

telegraph uk ^ | 1/6/01

[VaBthang4]

:o)

[willyone]

They are gone. Used to like watching them at Indian Springs north of Vegas. That base is also gone. They practically came right up to the fence along 95 getting ready to take off.

[KirklandJunction]

"Precision attack aircraft" per your reference.

"F"-117?

Don't get hung-up on what your 'gummint tells you.

[hchutch]

Some of my sources have indicated the F-117 can carry Sidewinder air-to-air missiles. It probably was intended as an AWACS-killer (going after Russian Mainstay and Moss AEW planes). Sneak in close, pop a couple Sidewinders at the AWACS, one or two at the escorts, then close the bay doors and vanish into the night...

While the F-15s and F-16s make like velociraptors and start slaughtering the OPFOR's poor pilots.

[willyone]

These wouldn't be the same ones behind the sellout to China would they? Yes they would. Making money is far more important than national security. I believe you will find Bush Senior, Kissinger and Baker at the center of this effort.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Start here

And here

And here

[razorback-bert]

The F-117 got hit because it was returning from a strike and it's bomb bay doors were stuck open. This allowed radar to see it. The plane had a history of this trouble, all this information is on FR.

[middie]

The stealth bomber isn't that fast, it doesn't have to be. One of the underlying purposes of creating stealth is to eliminate the need for speed and the weight, engines and airframe assemblies (and fuel load) that capacity entails. From the information I've seen the B-2 cruises at somewhere in the 430knot range. Compared to the old F-111 or the B-1B, it's considerably slower counting on its technology to protect it.

[middie]

The stealth bomber isn't that fast, it doesn't have to be. One of the underlying purposes of creating stealth is to eliminate the need for speed and the weight, engines and airframe assemblies (and fuel load) that capacity entails. From the information I've seen the B-2 cruises at somewhere in the 430knot range. Compared to the old F-111 or the B-1B, it's considerably slower counting on its technology to protect it.

[Enlightiator]

I understand that the "F" designator doesn't "prove" either way whether a given aircraft is more bomber than fighter, or vise versa (the F111 is sometimes called a fighter/bomber). What with the F117 bomb carrying capacity, I don't call it a bomber. Now the B-52, the B1, the B2, those are bombers, they carry decent payloads.

I call the F117 a figher because the Air Force does. Here are the guys who fly them:
--------------------------------------------

Holloman Air Force Base: The F-117A Nighthawk

The F-117A Nighthawk is the world's first operational aircraft designed to exploit low observable stealth technology. This aircraft is flown by pilots of the 49th Fighter Wing, Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., which reports to Air Combat Command with headquarters at Langley Air Force Base, Va. The F-117 is a single-seat fighter and is designed to penetrate dense threat environments as well as attack high value targets with pinpoint accuracy.

The unique design of the F-117 provides exceptional combat capabilities. About the size of an F-15 Eagle, the twin engine aircraft is powered by two General Electric F404 turbofan engines and has quadruple redundant fly-by-wire flight controls. With an air refueling capability, the F-117 supports worldwide commitments and adds to the deterrent strength of the U.S. military forces.

The F-117 can employ a variety of weapons and is equipped with sophisticated navigation and attack systems integrated into a state-of-the-art digital avionics suite that increases mission effectiveness and reduces pilot workload. Detailed planning for missions into highly defended target areas is accomplished by an automated mission planning system developed specifically to optimize the unique capabilities of the F-117.

A total of 59 F-117 aircraft have been procured. The first TAC aircraft were delivered in 1982, and the last delivery was made in July 1990. Streamlined management by Aeronautical Systems Division, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, combined breakthrough stealth technology with concurrent development and production to rapidly field the aircraft. The F-117 production decision was made in 1978 with a contract awarded to the Lockheed Advanced Development Projects, nicknamed "Skunk Works," in Burbank, Calif. The first flight was in 1981, only 31 months after the full-scale development decision. TAC's first F-117 unit, the 4450th Tactical Group (TG) achieved initial operational capability in October 1983.

The 4450th TG was deactivated in October 1989, and was reactivated as the 37th Tactical Fighter Wing. The F-117 has been employed in combat during both Operation JUST CAUSE (December 1989) and Operation DESERT STORM (January-February 1991). The official arrival ceremony for the F-117 to Holloman AFB was conducted May 9, 1992. The aircraft was officially named the Nighthawk in June 1994.

The F-117 has demonstrated that a stealth aircraft can be designed for reliability and maintainability. This aircraft's maintenance statistics are comparable to other tactical fighters of similar size and complexity. Logistically supported by Sacramento Air Logistics Center, McClellan AFB, Calif., the F-117 is kept at the forefront of technology through a planned weapon system improvement program located at USAF Plant 42 in Palmdale, Calif.

Specifications

Function: fighter, attack

Max gross weight: 52,500

Prime contractor: Lockheed Advanced Projects

Speed: high subsonic

Power plant/manufacturer: two General Electric F404 engines

Range: unlimited with air refueling

Crew: one

Status: operational

Dimensions: wingspan 43 ft. 4 in., length 65 ft. 11in., height 12 ft. 5 in.

Armament: internal weapons carriage

[RenegadeGDI]

I think the US military should start using the Aurora

[dglang]

The F in F-117 refers to 'fighter', but the planes dual role is 'fighter-bomber' in that it carries two 2000 pound intelligent bombs. The B-2 is a 'pure' bomber.

The B-52, while able to carry a large bomb load, has no capability to control the intelligent bombs as the F-117 does. During the last days of the Gulf War, the B-52's were to be loaded with the intelligent bombs and be accompanied by an F-117 which would control them as they were released one by from the B-52.

With the advent of the new JDAM bombs which are controlled by the GPS, the need for the F-117 escort would be reduced if we knew the exact coordinates of the targets to be hit.

[denydenydeny]

No B-2 has ever been shot down. An F-117 was shot down.

[VaBthang4]

Just an offshoot to the original thread...

1st thanks for the links.

this is a quote from the second link:
"Because it would not transmit signals but simply monitor existing television and radio frequencies, the Chinese system would be "silent" and virtually impossible to find and destroy. An added attraction of such a system to the Chinese is its cheapness. All they would need, say experts, is an integrated network of thousands of antennae working like old-fashioned television aerials. The only sophisticated part is the computer processing used for deciphering the signals."

Therein lies it's weakness...

If it needs these antennaes then those are what we can defeat.[Dont ask me how but there is the window]. I would think EMP blasts could take that out? What do you think?
Wouldnt it be better strategically to just monitor this television and radio traffic from a space based platform or am I nowhere in the ballpark?

[Buckeroo]

I appreciate the input. But it is fast considering it's payload characteristics. It is easily deployed around the world, too.

I don't think radar is much of a worry.

Best Regards!
Buckeroo

[joyful1]

Kick me, I'm Czeck....

[buckalfa]

But do not forget history--for every new military weapon developed, someone eventually comes up with an effective counter measure. Stealth technology is 20 years old, enough time for somebody to figure it out. However in that twenty year span, what weapon system(s) have been developed by the US but still are secret and yet unused?

[VaBthang4]

LOL...okay, yes Joyful you shot down a stealth, very good job.

[_Jim]

US fears Iraq radar can see stealth plane

... and Iraq should fear our HARM missiles which are designed to see and seek-out their little RADAR ...

[mad_as_he$$]

Bingo you hit it - bad guys have been working over this idea for sometime. Cell sites seem to work really well for some reason. Probably the plane is not as effective in that band of the spectrum.