Posted on 12/30/2001 9:36:17 AM PST by Demidog
Arguments over Israel and support of Israel are extremely contentious.
Support for Israel runs the gambit from those who support them, to the extent of wanting them to be an extension of the U.S. in the middle east, to those who are anti-Semitic and would like to see Israel destroyed.
Of course there is some middle ground, but in general the arguments about how the U.S. should treat Israel in the context of our broader foreign policy decisions is generally framed with opponents accusing each other of one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.
Hidden amongst the rhetorical rubble of these combative arguments, is the unanswered question which I believe is the core issue regarding Israel and U.S:
Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?
Is it Israel? Or is it the foerign policy wonks of the U.S. who are more interested in U.S. interests than those of Israel?
Staunch supporters of Israel would like to have their cake and eat it too. They would like the U.S. to continue to send billions in foreign and military aid, and yet butt out of Israel's own foreign policy decisions. Those on the opposite end probably want the same cake: U.S. support ceases and is over-run by her enemies.
If Israel lobs a missile or plants a booby trap that kills Palestinian children, the arguments flare up again and those who do not support Israel (like the so-called "Amen-Corner") perceive such incidents as license to condemn Israel and question U.S. support. While the "Amen-Corner" fights tooth and nail sometimes even ignores real attrocities or blames the victims of those attrocities in order to keep the pressure on to continue aid to Israel.
But it's a losing proposition for both sides.
Those who support Israel to the extreme do not get what they want because U.S. foreign policy is not concerned at all with what is in the best interests of Israel. It is concerned with U.S. interests. And those who do not support Israel (for whatever reason) do not have a choice. They must support Israel because they cannot direct their tax dollars away from Israel.
The money and aid that the U.S. sends to Israel has strings attached like all welfare programs foreign or domestic. Israel will never get to fully direct its own foreign policy as long as it is required to cowtow to U.S. demands. And it will always have to cowtow to U.S. demands as long as the U.S. government is providing the aid.
The right thing for Israel to do, if it is interested in becoming truly independent is to reject that aid. But this is easier stated than put into action.
Israel could no more reject American aid than a heroin addict could stare at a fresh fix and walk away.
The relationship between Israel and the U.S. is viewed by some as necessary to bring stability to the middle east. But the relationship is not healthy. It is marred, and more resembles a pimp/hooker relationship than two friends who are trying to help each other.
I have said on more than one occasion that our support of Israel is not moral. But this is not quite accurate. It isn't the support itself that is immoral. It is the forced nature of the support that is immoral combined with the U.S.'s insistence that control be associated with that support.
Those Americans that do not wish to support Israel should not have to do so. Just like none of us should have to support a family with our labor via Section 8, welfare programs or public schools, we should also not have to support another nation against our will.
Those who wish to support Israel with their taxes should be allowed to send as much as they wish. And I would venture a guess that the support Israel received from private citizens would far surpass what is given now (12 dollars or so per taxpayer).
And furthermore, how much sense does it make for the U.S. to send aid to both Israel and the Palestinians or Jordanians or other potential enemies of Israel against the wishes of those who support Israel?
It doesn't at all. That is why we must stop foreign aid to Israel and leave it in the hands of our private citizens. Of course, combined with this must also be the end of the Income tax. Ending the Income Tax would free the American people to support whomever they wished, foreign or domestic, without strings and without government control.
Since when is the U.S. as a nation qualified or even authorized to decide what is best for any nation other than the U.S.?
Since.....never.
And the added benefit to such a solution is the immediate calming of the rhetoric and the elimination the perceived problem with those of us who want an end to U.S. managed support of Israel: coersion.
There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel. It should not be forced at the point of a gun.
Who were bought out by Jews or RUN out by other Arabs who were intending to destroy Israel in an all out war. You still haven't shown me a Palestinian. I never said there were no Arabs. There IS a difference.
What is welfare and what is investment? It's welfare when they can't return anything to me. It's investment when there's a potential or realized return.
Unless, of course, you consider buying a share of GMC stock to be welfare from me to the company.
Since when does the state of Israel allow American military forces (or UN inspection teams) inside its borders?
Prior to the early 1800's, the was not a British archaeological study done which shortened *Paleological Study In the Near East* to palestine either. First use of the word at all was archaeological shorthand and it comprised the entire Mediterranean geographical area.
Also, our Patriots regularly go to the region when needed.
The whole concept of forward staging doesn't require one to regularly use a location. It simply means that they are a geographic region that WILL allow the U.S. to use their strategic location should the need arise.
That's my 2 cents! Except for one little deal. We don't want Israel to lose in the Middle East because we will be without any true friend or friendly ground. So don't be so quick to pull the financial plug over there.
Be aware that Israel does provide long-term welfare with financial aid being extended to certain Jewish religious families beginning with the 5th child and the $3 to $6 billion our Congress and Defense Dept donates to Israel each year enables this long-term welfare.
LOL.. Frosty is that you?
Once the geography gets checked we see that Saudi borders Kuwait and Israel doesn't.
OK, go ahead an bow. Our Patriot batteries from Europe are there all the time. AND they were there during the Gulf War...surely you remember the hype, don't you. Our SpecOps folks also train with the Israelis.
Ok, so I'm not a military type and I'm trying to learn something here .... are patriot batteries weapons, or weapons with troops attached?
Our SpecOps folks also train with the Israelis. Does this training take place inside the state of Israel? Were you STATIONED inside Israel?
Veronica sweetheart, you did a great job. When you get them to posting like like kids on a Napster chat room. You have won. Their true colors are showing.
I noticed someone posting that they contact their congressmen and complain. I am just wondering who their congressmen are, cause they sure didn't vote for them, remember their 1/2 percental didn't win. They have no congressman, all that is left is their bitterness.
Low Oil
I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Its a kind-of, sort-of, maybe-someday sort of thing. Meanwhile our spec ops are merely trained there to fight in the manner of Israelis. Are you suggesting that our military cannot learn to fight using American tactics?
Nope. It's called interoperability. We also learn to fight with the Brits and the Aussies for the same reason....probably do more with the Brits than anyone else. That way we can mesh objectives when the need arises.
A staging area, incidentally, is ALWAYS a future type of contingency. It's important, therefore, to remain INVESTORS in Israel's future.
Excellent point. So why don't we send the Brits and the Aussies foreign aid, also?
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