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The Israel Problem: Why We Should End The Welfare
self | 12/30/01 | Rick Fisk

Posted on 12/30/2001 9:36:17 AM PST by Demidog

Arguments over Israel and support of Israel are extremely contentious.

Support for Israel runs the gambit from those who support them, to the extent of wanting them to be an extension of the U.S. in the middle east, to those who are anti-Semitic and would like to see Israel destroyed.

Of course there is some middle ground, but in general the arguments about how the U.S. should treat Israel in the context of our broader foreign policy decisions is generally framed with opponents accusing each other of one extreme end of the spectrum or the other.

Hidden amongst the rhetorical rubble of these combative arguments, is the unanswered question which I believe is the core issue regarding Israel and U.S:

Who gets to decide the fate of Israel?

Is it Israel? Or is it the foerign policy wonks of the U.S. who are more interested in U.S. interests than those of Israel?

Staunch supporters of Israel would like to have their cake and eat it too. They would like the U.S. to continue to send billions in foreign and military aid, and yet butt out of Israel's own foreign policy decisions. Those on the opposite end probably want the same cake: U.S. support ceases and is over-run by her enemies.

If Israel lobs a missile or plants a booby trap that kills Palestinian children, the arguments flare up again and those who do not support Israel (like the so-called "Amen-Corner") perceive such incidents as license to condemn Israel and question U.S. support. While the "Amen-Corner" fights tooth and nail sometimes even ignores real attrocities or blames the victims of those attrocities in order to keep the pressure on to continue aid to Israel.

But it's a losing proposition for both sides.

Those who support Israel to the extreme do not get what they want because U.S. foreign policy is not concerned at all with what is in the best interests of Israel. It is concerned with U.S. interests. And those who do not support Israel (for whatever reason) do not have a choice. They must support Israel because they cannot direct their tax dollars away from Israel.

The money and aid that the U.S. sends to Israel has strings attached like all welfare programs foreign or domestic. Israel will never get to fully direct its own foreign policy as long as it is required to cowtow to U.S. demands. And it will always have to cowtow to U.S. demands as long as the U.S. government is providing the aid.

The right thing for Israel to do, if it is interested in becoming truly independent is to reject that aid. But this is easier stated than put into action.

Israel could no more reject American aid than a heroin addict could stare at a fresh fix and walk away.

The relationship between Israel and the U.S. is viewed by some as necessary to bring stability to the middle east. But the relationship is not healthy. It is marred, and more resembles a pimp/hooker relationship than two friends who are trying to help each other.

I have said on more than one occasion that our support of Israel is not moral. But this is not quite accurate. It isn't the support itself that is immoral. It is the forced nature of the support that is immoral combined with the U.S.'s insistence that control be associated with that support.

Those Americans that do not wish to support Israel should not have to do so. Just like none of us should have to support a family with our labor via Section 8, welfare programs or public schools, we should also not have to support another nation against our will.

Those who wish to support Israel with their taxes should be allowed to send as much as they wish. And I would venture a guess that the support Israel received from private citizens would far surpass what is given now (12 dollars or so per taxpayer).

And furthermore, how much sense does it make for the U.S. to send aid to both Israel and the Palestinians or Jordanians or other potential enemies of Israel against the wishes of those who support Israel?

It doesn't at all. That is why we must stop foreign aid to Israel and leave it in the hands of our private citizens. Of course, combined with this must also be the end of the Income tax. Ending the Income Tax would free the American people to support whomever they wished, foreign or domestic, without strings and without government control.

Since when is the U.S. as a nation qualified or even authorized to decide what is best for any nation other than the U.S.?

Since.....never.

And the added benefit to such a solution is the immediate calming of the rhetoric and the elimination the perceived problem with those of us who want an end to U.S. managed support of Israel: coersion.

There is nothing wrong with supporting Israel. It should not be forced at the point of a gun.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I don't blame you because geography books no longer exist, not only do the boooks not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushu'a in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not one single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." [ Moshe Dayan, in Haifa, quoted by Ha'aretz, April, 4 1969. Reproduced by Ed Walid Khalidi

Who were bought out by Jews or RUN out by other Arabs who were intending to destroy Israel in an all out war. You still haven't shown me a Palestinian. I never said there were no Arabs. There IS a difference.

381 posted on 12/30/2001 7:42:42 PM PST by Nix 2
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To: Nix 2
Sheesh Nix .. go get yourself a 1939 Atlas. Prior to the creation of Israel, Jews who resided there were called Palestinian Jews. Vexing little problem, huh?
382 posted on 12/30/2001 7:47:31 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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Comment #383 Removed by Moderator

To: Demidog
It isn't support. It's investment.....in the only democracy in that part of the world. Investment in a land platform from which this nation could forward stage if the military need ever arose.

What is welfare and what is investment? It's welfare when they can't return anything to me. It's investment when there's a potential or realized return.

Unless, of course, you consider buying a share of GMC stock to be welfare from me to the company.

384 posted on 12/30/2001 7:53:25 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
from which this nation could forward stage if the military need ever arose.

Since when does the state of Israel allow American military forces (or UN inspection teams) inside its borders?

385 posted on 12/30/2001 7:57:01 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Sheesh Nix .. go get yourself a 1939 Atlas.

Prior to the early 1800's, the was not a British archaeological study done which shortened *Paleological Study In the Near East* to palestine either. First use of the word at all was archaeological shorthand and it comprised the entire Mediterranean geographical area.

386 posted on 12/30/2001 8:01:18 PM PST by Nix 2
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Always has been joint training; happens regularly. And I just retired after 20 yrs in the Army.

Also, our Patriots regularly go to the region when needed.

The whole concept of forward staging doesn't require one to regularly use a location. It simply means that they are a geographic region that WILL allow the U.S. to use their strategic location should the need arise.

387 posted on 12/30/2001 8:02:44 PM PST by xzins
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To: A CA Guy
I do believe in short term safty nets when jobs are lost and perhaps an unexpected birth ruins college or the current job. Any safty nets should be os maybe 6 months. The only exclusion would be what SS does when a spouse dies. It helps through the deceased spouses SS benefits to give a check to their child until as late as 22 id they are in college.

That's my 2 cents! Except for one little deal. We don't want Israel to lose in the Middle East because we will be without any true friend or friendly ground. So don't be so quick to pull the financial plug over there.

Be aware that Israel does provide long-term welfare with financial aid being extended to certain Jewish religious families beginning with the 5th child and the $3 to $6 billion our Congress and Defense Dept donates to Israel each year enables this long-term welfare.

388 posted on 12/30/2001 8:04:22 PM PST by StoptheDonkey
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To: Nix 2
Now, of course I could be wrong, but doesn't the bible mention a place called Palestine a few times? How far do you want to go back, maybe we should shoot for a century or two before Abraham or Moses. Wonder what it was called back then.
389 posted on 12/30/2001 8:05:42 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Nix 2
I am interested in your recitation of the Isreali Constitution. Can you tell me about your interpretation?
390 posted on 12/30/2001 8:14:07 PM PST by Buckeroo
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To: Nix 2
"Prior to the early 1800's, the was not a British archaeological study done which shortened *Paleological Study In the Near East* to palestine either. First use of the word at all was archaeological shorthand and it comprised the entire Mediterranean geographical area"

LOL.. Frosty is that you?

391 posted on 12/30/2001 8:14:14 PM PST by NimbleBunny
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To: xzins
Tell me you were stationed INSIDE the area that Israel controls and I will bow to your superior knowledge of the current facts. Until then, 'in the region' isn't quite the same thing. Last I heard, they did not want our presence there, period. BTW, why did we go to such heroics to 'buy' bases from the Saudi's during the Gulf war if we were so welcome to set up bases in Israel?
392 posted on 12/30/2001 8:14:55 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Saudi's during the Gulf war if we were so welcome to set up bases in Israel?

Once the geography gets checked we see that Saudi borders Kuwait and Israel doesn't.

OK, go ahead an bow. Our Patriot batteries from Europe are there all the time. AND they were there during the Gulf War...surely you remember the hype, don't you. Our SpecOps folks also train with the Israelis.

393 posted on 12/30/2001 8:20:53 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
Our Patriot batteries from Europe are there all the time.

Ok, so I'm not a military type and I'm trying to learn something here .... are patriot batteries weapons, or weapons with troops attached?

Our SpecOps folks also train with the Israelis. Does this training take place inside the state of Israel? Were you STATIONED inside Israel?

394 posted on 12/30/2001 8:26:51 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: NimbleBunny
No. But I believe this has been posted on Free Republic many times, including by me at least several times. Facts is facts. When the Near East is the subject, and your professor says study, you study. I studied. I'm not sure who LaFroste is. Are you?
395 posted on 12/30/2001 8:28:32 PM PST by Nix 2
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To: veronica
EEEEyew!!! It's the Slime Queen Troll!--posted by Texoma..

Veronica sweetheart, you did a great job. When you get them to posting like like kids on a Napster chat room. You have won. Their true colors are showing.

I noticed someone posting that they contact their congressmen and complain. I am just wondering who their congressmen are, cause they sure didn't vote for them, remember their 1/2 percental didn't win. They have no congressman, all that is left is their bitterness.

Low Oil

396 posted on 12/30/2001 8:33:55 PM PST by LowOiL
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Patriot batteries are troops and weapons. I was never stationed inside the state of Israel. To my knowledge we DON'T have permanently stationed troops inside Israel. What we have are troops who train there. And the future view says that is what you need to do if the area is a potential staging base.
397 posted on 12/30/2001 8:34:03 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
... a potential staging base.

I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Its a kind-of, sort-of, maybe-someday sort of thing. Meanwhile our spec ops are merely trained there to fight in the manner of Israelis. Are you suggesting that our military cannot learn to fight using American tactics?

398 posted on 12/30/2001 8:41:06 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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To: Ridin' Shotgun
Are you suggesting that our military cannot learn to fight using American tactics?

Nope. It's called interoperability. We also learn to fight with the Brits and the Aussies for the same reason....probably do more with the Brits than anyone else. That way we can mesh objectives when the need arises.

A staging area, incidentally, is ALWAYS a future type of contingency. It's important, therefore, to remain INVESTORS in Israel's future.

399 posted on 12/30/2001 8:44:58 PM PST by xzins
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To: xzins
We also learn to fight with the Brits and the Aussies for the same reason.

Excellent point. So why don't we send the Brits and the Aussies foreign aid, also?

400 posted on 12/30/2001 8:47:32 PM PST by Ridin' Shotgun
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