Patriots

[freespeechplease]

Lest we forget.. The founding fathers of the United States were considered terrorists by the legal government of the colonies

[Frances_Marion]

"I agree. I think that Texas and California would benefit greatly from a cessation of the United States."

LOL! Particularly California! Where's that geography altering earthquake when you need it? California's alread an island anyway, so I don't see the downfall...

[CarolineJ]

I am a direct descendant of a signer of the Declaration of Independence. He was not a terrorist. He did not engage in terroristic activities. We of succeeding generations have been so proud of him and we have learned every thing there is to know about him I am sure. He was a patriot as were the other 51 signers. As one of the other posters suggested, he probably was considered disloyal to the Crown of the British Empire, but that's a far cry from terrorism.

[serinde]

Considering the definition of "terrorist" now includes that in the "Patriot Act," this statement isn't that far off. (Please don't try to confuse the issue by mentioning that the founders didn't have airplanes, nuclear weapons, etc.) I've bolded some sections that I feel could easily have been applied to America's early patriots.

Also, please note that these definitions are not applicable only to foreign nationals, but American citizens, also.

``Sec. 25. Federal terrorism offense defined

``As used in this title, the term `Federal terrorism offense' means an offense that is--

``(1) is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion; or to retaliate against government conduct; and

``(2) is a violation of, or an attempt or conspiracy to violate- section 32 (relating to destruction of aircraft or aircraft facilities), 37 (relating to violence at international airports), 81 (relating to arson within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction), 175, 175b (relating to biological weapons), 229 (relating to chemical weapons), 351(a)-(d) (relating to congressional, cabinet, and Supreme Court assassination and kidnaping), 791 (relating to harboring terrorists), 831 (relating to nuclear materials), 842(m) or (n) (relating to plastic explosives), 844(f) or (i) (relating to arson and bombing of certain property), 930(c), 956 (relating to conspiracy to injure property of a foreign government), 1030(a)(1), 1030(a)(5)(A), or 1030(a)(7) (relating to protection of computers), 1114 (relating to protection of officers and employees of the United States), 1116 (relating to murder or manslaughter of foreign officials, official guests, or internationally protected persons), 1203 (relating to hostage taking), 1361 (relating to injury of Government property or contracts), 1362 (relating to destruction of communication lines, stations, or systems), 1363 (relating to injury to buildings or property within special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States), 1366 (relating to destruction of an energy facility), 1751(a)-(d) (relating to Presidential and Presidential staff assassination and kidnaping), 1992, 2152 (relating to injury of fortifications, harbor defenses, or defensive sea areas), 2155 (relating to destruction of national defense materials, premises, or utilities), 2156 (relating to production of defective national defense materials, premises, or utilities), 2280 (relating to violence against maritime navigation), 2281 (relating to violence against maritime fixed platforms), 2332 (relating to certain homicides and other violence against United States nationals occurring outside of the United States), 2332a (relating to use of weapons of mass destruction), 2332b (relating to acts of terrorism transcending national boundaries), 2339A (relating to providing material support to terrorists), 2339B (relating to providing material support to terrorist organizations), or 2340A (relating to torture);

``(3) section 236 (relating to sabotage of nuclear facilities or fuel) of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 (42 U.S.C. 2284);

``(4) section 601 (relating to disclosure of identities of covert agents) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 421); or

``(5) any of the following provisions of title 49: section 46502 (relating to aircraft piracy), the second sentence of section 46504 (relating to assault on a flight crew with a dangerous weapon), section 46505(b)(3), (relating to explosive or incendiary devices, or endangerment of human life by means of weapons, on aircraft), section 46506 if homicide or attempted homicide is involved, or section 60123(b) (relating to destruction of interstate gas or hazardous liquid pipeline facility) of title 49.''; and

(2) in the table of sections in the beginning of such chapter, by inserting after the item relating to section 24 the following:

``25. Federal terrorism offense defined.''.

(b) Section 2332b(g)(5)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking ``is a violation'' and all that follows through ``title 49'' and inserting ``is a Federal terrorism offense''.

(c) Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)--

(A) by inserting ``(or to have the effect)'' after ``intended''; and

(B) in clause (iii), by striking ``by assassination or kidnapping'' and inserting ``(or any function thereof) by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping (or threat thereof)'';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking ``and'';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period and inserting ``; and''; and

(4) by inserting the following paragraph (4):

``(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

``(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; and

``(B) appear to be intended (or to have the effect)--

``(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

``(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

``(iii) to affect the conduct of a government (or any function thereof) by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping (or threat thereof).''.

[knighthawk]

Almost two centuries ago a group of disturbed men met in the small Pennsylvania State House. They gathered to decide on a course of action. Behind the locked and guarded doors they debated for hours whether or not to sign the Declaration which had been presented for their consideration. For hours the talk was treason and its price the headsman's axe, the gallows and noose. The talk went on and decision was not forthcoming.
Then, Jefferson writes, a voice was heard coming from the balcony:

They may stretch our necks on all the gibbets in the land. They may turn every tree into a gallows, every home into a grave, and yet the words of that parchment can never die. They may pour our blood on a thousand scaffolds and yet from every drop that dyes the axe a new champion of freedom will spring into birth. The words of this declaration will live long after our bones are dust.

To the mechanic in his workshop they will speak hope; to the slave in the mines, freedom; but to the coward rulers, these words will speak in tones of warning they cannot help but hear. Sign that parchment. Sign if the next moment the noose is around your neck. Sign if the next minute this hall rings with the clash of falling axes! Sign by all your hopes in life or death, not only for yourselves but for all ages, for that parchment will be the textbook of freedom the bible of the rights of man forever.

Were my soul trembling on the verge of eternity, my hand freezing in death, I would still implore you to remember this truth:
God has given America to be free.

As he finished, the speaker sank back in his seat exhausted. Inspired by his eloquence the delegates rushed forward to sign the Declaration of Independence. When they turned to thank the speaker for his timely words he couldn't be found and to this day no one knows who he was or how he entered or left the guarded room.

[facedown]

GREAT story!

Trying to compare the Founders to the likes of bin Laden is ludicrous beyond words.

[knighthawk]

I hope he will take this text and show it to his friends at the DU (psssht, don't tell anyone it's from a speech of Ronald Reagan).

[facedown]

Your secret is safe with me, my friend!

[RetiredArmy]

This guy must be Jennings leg man.

[Squantos]

I think you mean well by your post but unlike the terrorists as defined in our time the founding fathers didn't kill women and children intentionally to the best of my knowledge. The founding fathers attacked the active military installations , ports , soldiers and sailors of the British empire.......

Your comments and the Socialist's whom have attempted to put this moniker on "patriots" IMHO is weak and just a sensational/dinformational form of yellow journalism and sound bites that folks who love their country and it's constitutional freedoms must live under trying to protect it in a law abidding manner under the propaganda spread by those who hate this country and will destroy it from within if left unchecked..........

Don't let them define Patriotism as a form of evil........ I won't.

Stay Safe !

[pocat]

That has got to be the WORST analogy I've seen all year. Did ya see "freespeechplease"s *member since* date? To be honest, I clicked on his name expecting to see "No current freeper by that name" but he's actually still on. What's this loser doing here?

OK - now I'm chuckling - what an idiot!

[Squantos]

I've already figured that out and have since moved on too my TV set. Watching Sumi Das drive a video game with her butt on Fresh Gear (TechTV) :o) Gotta a watch that Bro !!

Stay Safe , Merry New Year and Hope Santa was kind to ya !

[pocat]

That's on now? Gotta go - woo hoo!

Sounds like Pay-per-view!

[Squantos]

Ohhhh Yeah, whole new meaning for the term "game" .....

Watch the later show it's some kind of pressure sentitive seat pad that..........Oh well I don't want to ruin the end for ya :o)

Stay Safe !

[Orbiter]

Oh, so it's hate, is it? Well, we're only doing it for The Children, so they can grow up in a non-judgemental, sort of way. Or is it that we're the VRWC? It's all our fault, you know.

[Squantos]

Whoops or Whoopie !!!....... that's "sensitive" versus "sentitive".......That game would stink IMHO :o)

Stay Safe Bro !

[Frances_Marion]

Wow, someone who knows how to post intelligently and actually offer something controversial with some substance to discuss...thank you!

[harpseal]

The founders of the United States of America were not considered to be terrorists by the Crown. That they were considered traitors under English Common Law following some of the victories of the American Revolution is in fact true but there any comparison ends. They were operating from established governmental structures. These Governments authorized the use of force. The initial battles in the New England states were definsive in nature by the Colonists. The traitor label was not applied until after the United States forces had won several battles. The United States of America's Army and Naval forces did not violate the laws of war at the time. They wore uniforms and met the standards of their time. Now the British use of Indian allies in the West and North did target civilians and did meet the now current definition of terrorism.

Please study Ameican History in some detail prior to making absurd and insulting comments about something you obviously do not understand.

Squantos, thank you for making me aware of this particular post.<{>Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown