Posted on 12/21/2001 11:34:36 AM PST by onedoug
"You got me plum-hypnotized," Elmer Gantry says to Sister Sharon Falconer in that film/novel.
Is that the case with me over Joyce Meyer?
She seems pretty good at down-home preachin'. And while not a classic beauty, she yet ministers out a fair amount sex appeal, along with the word.
(I think, ultimately, it's those Texas/Missouri eyes.)
I post this to philosophy since, as I know she has a fair amount of, at least internet detractors, it yet seems that her ability to project the Word, is as anchored in the integrity of faith as any other TV preacher I can recall.
...Except perhaps the late Bishop Fulton J Sheen.
In short though, Meyer lately fascinates me, and I'm curious what other Freepers may think. Particularly Evangelicals!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas to All!
Sniff, sniff.....you said something negative about my beloved Tony Evans. I love, love, love that man. He is also a Republican and has had an influence on our Bush. We need more Black Republicans.
No Matchett or is it ViVA I'm not saying that at all. I listen to Meyer today as a matter of fact. I also listened to Gerald Mann and John Hageee today as well. I bet they are on the hit list too huh? As a matter of fact I bet the diciples themselves could not meet the standards being set here as they were not in agreement on many matters if you know the Bible you realize as much. They did agree however on Salvation through Christ just as Meyers and Copeland as well believe.
HUH?? Where did you get that?? What Paul was talking about was the the WIVES (not women in general), were not to speak to their husbands in church. A little study of the original church would explain what Paul was saying. The original church had sections separated across from each other. The Jews still practice this today - separating the men and women in church. Because the WIVES were sitting across the isle from their husbands, they would stand up and begin yelling at their husbands - you know - about housekeeping stuff. Paul got upset at them, and told the WIVES to be silent while they were in church.
I speak in tongues in my church - and so does the majority of my congregation. To say women are not allowed to do this is just plain ignorant.
In no way have I aligned myself with Viva La Homeschool, whom I KNOW is way off base. How you inexplicably jumped to that conclusion is laughable.
In fact I would advise her to read a book by John Piper and Wayne Grudem entitled, "Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" - "A Response to Evangelical Feminism", if she's interested in seeing how proper hermeneutics (methodological principles of Biblical interpretation) are applied when reading Scriptures like the ones she cites.
BTW - If you don't believe that Joyce Meyer believes and teaches what I mentioned (tip of the heretical & aberrant iceberg) in my reply #251, then ask her. While you're at it, you might want to ask her if she still has that "demon of lust" --- that pesky "generational spirit" --- that has been in her family for YEARS!!! Hahahahahaha.
And where, may I ask, did you get that? Paul was talking about the gift of prophecy, that there must be order regarding the gift of tongues. Where did you get that he jumped from speaking in tongues to talking about housework or whatever? Read the whole chapter 14 of Corinthians, it's about spiritual gifts and exercising those gifts in public worship.
No. I shall ask you, again, YOU PROVE by quoting her, in her own words, the claims you have made against her. YOU show me what, exactly, she has said that is not scriptural.
I already told you that those people teach a different Jesus and a different gospel and the whole book of Jude warns you about them.
It is up to you to INFORM yourself about what the essential (core / cardinal) doctrines are that constitute the "Christian" faith. (Hint: You will find them summed up in the creeds. And make sure you carefully read the Athanasius Creed, for instance, because it leaves lying false teachers no room to be able to twist *who* the Triune God is; One What and Three Whos.)
If one steps outside those essentials and teaches something else (like Meyer, et.al.), then one has stepped outside the Christian faith. One is no longer talking about the "Christian" faith, in that case.
You can easily find the creeds that "sum up Christianity" by going to google .... IF you're reeeeally interested. I'm not your mother, so won't do it for you. :D
I got that from your post! Yes, Paul was talking about speaking in tongues in the church - but it had nothing whatsoever to do with WOMEN not being allowed to speak in tongues in church!! That's an ignorant statement and it is not what Paul said nor is it what he meant!!
You can put any kind of spin you want on it - but the statement I quoted is not a correct interpretation of what the Bible says.
You see, the two don't agree - if you say women can't speak in church, and then have Jesus approach women to start a church. The two are opposed to each other. And ... I am very confident Paul did not teach anything which was contrary to what Jesus wanted him to teach.
Apparently you have a hard time understanding what you read, or else you didn't closely read what I posted in reply #251. I can only assume you are an emotion-driven person who refuses to believe anything he doesn't want to believe.
I'm not your mother. If you want to know if what I'm telling you about Meyer's beliefs are true, you will make an effort to find out. If not, you won't.
But if you do decide to ask her, don't forget to ask her to tell you about that demon of lust that she says has been in her family for GENERATIONS. I wonder how many helful souls have tried to "help her" get rid of it. Hahahaha.
I've even heard some rumors on a younger John Hagee as well. So are they true or not? I don't care myself he like me is forgiven even if it is true. So who is preaching the real factual scriptures anyway? Most likely those with degrees and knowledge of Hebrew, Greek and Latin actually. It's just like the age old King James Bible arguement. By the time it was written the scriptures were translated perhaps in a 1000 different languages and versions.
I prefer myself to listen to many different messages. Just as I used to read perhaps 3 translations of the Bible as well. Strange enough they all had the same basic message of salvation through Christ. Not strange actually as the Gospel has remained intact for 2000 years and the Books of Moses perhaps 3500 years. Despite man and his legalism the message remains.
Oh BTW as for "Demon of lust" wanna discuss David and Solomon as well? Yea they had as much still they were used as messengers of GOD and they were most of the time far out of the scriptures of their day. In short you forget grace and add conditions and straight and narrow interpitations that no one can endure. I challange you to name me one preacher on this earth without fault. There is none.
I'm grounded deep enough in my faith I can except differences in persons beliefs and understand that to undermine them is more damaging than the beliefs themself to the person. What I can not stand is someone who tries to CONVERT others from the beliefs GOD has placed on their heart. Namely ones who say that unless they interpit scripture **** as they do then they are going to hell. It not only ridiclous it's Biblically wrong.
Apparently you have a hard time understanding what you read, or else you didn't closely read what I posted in reply #251. I can only assume you are an emotion-driven person who refuses to believe anything he doesn't want to believe.
I'm not your mother. If you want to know if what I'm telling you about Meyer's beliefs are true, you will make an effort to find out. If not, you won't.
Now your going from attacking Joyce Meyer to attacking me and being silly, to boot. I read your claims. You refute my claims, but I'm not attacking Joyce Meyer, you are. All I've read are your comments about Joyce Meyer nothing that Joyce Meyer has said. YOU haven't backed any of your claims with any proof, just your own allegations and now accusations about me, whom you don't know.
You see, the two don't agree - if you say women can't speak in church.
I DID NOT SAY women cannot speak in church. The argument in most of this thread has been with Viva, who said women are not supposed to teach or preach in church because Paul says: "Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak." I said that Paul is referring to spiritual gifts ONLY in this chapter and that he was saying women should not speak in tongues at church.
We need to cool off, I think.
As far as the sins of her family "for generations" or her past forgiven sins, Jesus is her Lord and Savior and God has forgiven all her sins, and they are as from as the East is from the West to Him, just as are mine. Thanks be to my Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom I am saved by grace. And you are being more than an ugly little person.
Okay - lets take a look at what Paul said, "let the wives keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak". You see, the word is WIVES not WOMEN. Paul was talking about WIVES spending too much time trying to discuss household things with their husbands during church.
Secondly, even if Paul was referring to spiritual gifts, he was not in any way saying WOMEN should not be allowed to speak in tongues in the church. Besides, the other reason Paul was hesitant about wives having any influence in the church was because most of the wives of the Corinthian churches had just come out from another religion, "the worship of the Goddess Diana". Paul did not want them to be allowed to teach or have any authority in the church because they were such new Christians and Paul didn't want them confusing the message with the Goddess Diana stuff.
As for authority for what I'm telling you, I got my informaton from Brother Hagin - who has been in ministry for over 60 years. He built Rhema Bible Training Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I don't know when he started the school, but it gets bigger and bigger each year. I would trust what Brother Hagin says over a lot of people. You can go to the Rhema web site and find Brother Hagin's books there. He wrote a book called, "The Woman Question". You might find it enlightening.
His post 251 link ["She's teaching sounding doctrine". See HERE] brought me to post 201, which is Viva's. Why would I not assume he aligns himself with her? I have not made any unprovoked ad hominem attacks ("ugly little person" is the extent of my guilt); the same cannot be said of Mr. Matchett.
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