How were the Native Indians when Columbus arrived?[Angels?, Savages?,etc]

I have a question. I was discussing Native Indians with a friend of mine, and she seems to believe that Indians were nature loving angels and our ancestors totally ruined their harmonious relationship with nature. Is this true?

This may very well be true, but since it fits perfectly into the liberal propaganda, I have my suspicions. Since liberals are known for supressing the truth to further their cause.

I have also seen posts on here where a person has briefly mentioned that the way we currently imagine the Indians of the time is not true to how they actually were.

Can anybody assist me in understanding the true character of the Indians at the time? I appreciate any input.

What was the "NORM"? Were there far more neighbor eaters, or far more nature lovers?

I was taught in the liberal education system so I am ignorant to all the facts as you all would probably guess. I was taught that Columbus was bad, and that the Indians (oops Native Americans) were butchered, ect. So this discussion would probably help me out too. I'm struggling after 12 years of brainwashing, however, I am a grownup conservative now. Just a little ignorant to the facts, about Indians, Columbus, you all know what I mean.

There may have been some tree-huggers but I doubt it. Warfare was the normal state of the eastern indian tribes, and they loved to torture anyone they caught from an enemy tribe.

The Iroqois and Algonquins had a long running war. One of the highlights was when the Iroquois massacred the entire Erie tribe. Approximately 1,000 Eries were tied individually to trees and burned alive, all in one day, somewhere near the eastern shore of Lake Erie.

At one point the Iroquois were willing to travel hundreds of miles to the west to massacre a tribe in Illinois.

Ritual cannibalism was common among these tribes. Eating the heart of a brave enemy was believed to confer bravery on the diner. You don't want to know about the tortures they employed . . .

Here is an address that links to the story of the torture and murder of Catholic missionary Isaac Jogues who died at the hands of the Iroquois tribe:

http://www.sfo.com/~denglish/wynaks/jogues.htm
And here is the torture part:

The trip to Quebec was made without mishap. On August 1st, Jogues' group, forty in number, laden with goods and supplies for the hard pressed mission, left on the return trip to Huronia. They did not get very far. On the following day they were ambushed by the waiting Iroquois. Most of the Hurons fled, a few were killed or captured, and Jogues and two donne's Rene' Goupil and Guillaume Couture were taken prisoner. Among the captured Hurons was Ahatsistari, the greatest of their warriors, and several other prominent Christians. What a blow to the Huron mission!

As soon as the engagement was over, the nightmare of torture began. The enemy fell upon their captives in a great rage, ripping out their finger nails, chewing their fingers and beating them with clubs. They then hustled off their victims to Mohawk country south of the St. Lawrence. En route the poor captives were "caressed" by 200 Iroquois setting out on the warpath. All, except a few small children, were savagely beaten and mutilated.

And yet there was still so much more to come.

On the 18th day, weak from lack of food, loss of blood and the agonizing pain of their bruised, broken and mutilated members, the prisoners arrived in the first Iroquois village. Here again the same ordeal had to be faced: running the gauntlet, beating, cutting, whip-ping, burning, scratching. It was an incredible experience to be under-gone again in two other villages. One wonders how the captives could survive such brutal and inhuman treatment.

Jogues seemed to be singled out for the refinement of this cruelty since the Iroquois considered him a kind of leader. They hacked off his left thumb; and yet he was grateful they had spared the right thumb so he could write to his brethren! He also received some terrible blows to his body, especially with a big lump of iron attached to a rope, and, as he said, "the only thing that kept me from fainting and that sustained my strength and courage was the fear that my tormentor would hit me with it a second time."

And even at night there was no respite for the poor victims. It was then the turn of the adolescents and children who delighted in throwing hot coals and burning cinders on their tortured flesh, in tearing open their wounds and in inflicting other senseless barbarities. And as Jogues himself remarked, "patience was our physician." <

I have actually discussed this with other liberals myself many times. One group of indians in Northern Ohio was totally wiped out by another tribe at one point - little remains of who they once were. Offhand I cannot give you a link on this but I came across it in my own studies of this question. Indians were for the most part just as agressive as the white man in taking territory (not all of course).
The point being is that just like the rest of the world there were 'good' and 'bad' tribes - but I will admit we did screw them over pretty bad in treaties and we should have approached the whole thing in a slightly more civilized manner. That said - our forefathers did the best they could with what they had and the indians are still here today: We could have finished them all off so perhaps we are more humane then some of them were...

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