Tortured, Bloody, Sickening . . . But Effective -- Pro-Life Group Pricks Communters' Consciences

Los Angeles Lay Catholic Mission ^ | 10/01 | Robert Kumpel

[S.O.S121.500]

"Over time, if you have a functioning conscience, these images will begin to change the way you feel, think and ultimately, behave."

TRUTH IS!

Those who would like to contribute to the Center for Bio-Ethical Reform can visit their website at www.abortionNO.org,
or call (562) 777-9117; cell-phone, (714) 240-6976.

bump

[pcl]

The issue of a fetus being a human is not a scientific one. It is a religious, moral or philosphical issue. By human, I mean something different than a Homo Sapian.

A dog is dog from the moment of conception. No doubt about it. He has dog DNA. If everything goes well, he will develop into a living, breathing dog. The same is true for a Homo Sapian. It is pure and simple (?) biology.

The question is what makes a human different than a dog. It is not just a set of dog or homo sapian DNA sequences. It is somthing else. Something that we all know is there but we can not lay our finger on precisely. For want of a better concept, most people call it a soul.

The soul is what makes man different than a another sequence of DNA. The soul is what makes a Homo Sapian a Human.

The question then becomes at what point does the soul merge with the Homo Sapian to make a Human.

[New Zealander]

Yeah – a lightweight and a newbie to these things. In the context of trying to decide something like a law, an argument that is only a personal belief is not useful because it is only relevant for a person, or for a part of the whole, and people who hold that belief intently cannot be dissuaded from it. A lot of beliefs based upon real world experiences are, as you say, more than just personal beliefs alone.

Sophistry is only a way of buying time in a debate – in an ideal setting it will always be exposed. Gotta make sure that debates hold to logic, reason, facts can be independently checked etc.

[pcl]

If medical science advances so that a 10 week old fetus, born to your daughter

If the 10 week old fetus is autonomous from the mother and is breathing air into its lungs, it is a human with a soul.

[Hajman]

The issue of a fetus being a human is not a scientific one. It is a religious, moral or philosphical issue. By human, I mean something different than a Homo Sapian.

...

The question is what makes a human different than a dog. It is not just a set of dog or homo sapian DNA sequences. It is somthing else. Something that we all know is there but we can not lay our finger on precisely. For want of a better concept, most people call it a soul.

The soul is what makes man different than a another sequence of DNA. The soul is what makes a Homo Sapian a Human.

Ah, I see now. Ok, things make a bit more sense as far as your arguments go. Just to let you know, you'd be able to get your arguments across much better if you use the terms as this board defines them (the board attempts to define the terms in a way consistent with those of the dictionary and public accepted definitions). When you say 'Human' on this board, people see that as being synonomous with Homo Sapien. The reason for this is thus: It's how the dictionary defines it (See: Merriam-Webster's dictionary, Human-noun. Or see your Dictionary.com). For what your talking about, we use the term Person (a Human is a person, yes, but is the more philisophical side of the Human, while Human is the biological side; as far as everyone on FR is concerned). If you use the terms as we generally know them, then I can assure you your explinations will be taken more seriously (but that's up to you. However, a general rule of debate is, that the new-comers need to adapt to the accepted definitions of terms already in use..or without meaning to, they'll be flamed and mocked, as you are). My suggestion is use Human as 'Homo Sapien', and Person as what you're describing (this is how everyone else on FR understands such), or you'll just be talking past about just about everyone on the board. That doesn't get either side anywhere.

I thank you for specifying how you define 'Human' (and I understand more of your arguments now that I realize you're not talking about Homo Sapien, but rather about Personhood. I might not agree with many of them, but they make far more sense to me now). Now, what about life? This definition is just as important.

Thanks in advance,

-The Hajman-

[New Zealander]

Thank you, but I arrived at my beliefs through decades of experience and thought, and they are not at all ambivalent.

Yes – that’s not at odds with what I said - an ‘ambivalent’ position can only be adopted as a belief – and nestled in the mind earnestly stops being at odds with itself.

Unfortunately it can then become entrenched and becomes a matter of pride to defend...because it may not stand up in debate. A belief that is put forward in debate has to be understood by the recipient; otherwise any flaws in it are set upon.

[pcl]

Now, what about life? This definition is just as important.

The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

This is a dictionary definition. It works for me.

[pcl]

Thank you for defining the terms Person, Human and Homo Sapian as commonly used here and probably the rest of the world also.

[Concentrate]

The display of those images is condescending - among other things.

You must be very offended. Sniff, sniff.

[RnMomof7]

I was going to ask for a donation # thanks!

[homeschool mama]

**The "Post Abortion Depression" (bumper sticker) would be probably the best, as that's NOT discussed....It just MIGHT get someone to reconsider her "choice" if she thought there was going to be FURTHER pain involved. In my ever so humble opinion, that is. **

BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TomSmedley]

Your post contains the same old, tired aguements that have gained very little in the way of acceptance in the last 25 years.

As old G K Chesterton put it, truth is not established by the clock or the calendar. In its heyday, Nazi Germany was the slickest, most scientific, most progressive, most sophisticated nation on earth. You share with the Nazis the view that certain human beings are disposable. Even if the majority of your contemporaries agree with you, you are wrong. Hitler won office through fair elections.

Some principles, like the sanctity of life, are not negotiable. Our holocaust has already claimed at least 4 times as many innocent victims as Hitler's.

But, the slaughter of innocents appears to be perfectly acceptable to you, if the majority approves. I think the Bible calls that condition "a seared conscience." Or, as CS Lewis put it in The Magician's Nephew, if you try hard enough to make yourself stupider than you really are, all too often you will succeed.

[pcl]

You must be very offended. Sniff, sniff.

All the better to arouse you. Does it make you tingle in just the right places? Does it feel good? Really Good? Is it all you hoped for?

[pcl]

You want to limit the Free-Choice of other people.

You want "other" people put bumper stickers on their cars.

To I catch a drift here? ;-)

[pcl]

As old G K Chesterton put it, truth is not established by the clock or the calendar.

Does this mean you still believe it is okay to stone women to death as required in the bible

Does this mean you still believe it is okay for a suspicious husband to subject his wife to a life threatening trial by ordeal to prove her innocence as required in the bible?

I think it means that the truth is realativc to what is convient for you.

[~EagleNebula~]

BUMPety-BUMP!

[homeschool mama]

***You want to limit the Free-Choice of other people.

You want "other" people put bumper stickers on their cars.

To I catch a drift here? ;-)

***

Let's take each comment individually, pcl.

#1. You are *not* pro-life so your style of free choice is cheering when babies are murdered in the womb or 3/4 way out of the womb. You derive sick pleasure from your belief. You are completely and utterly intolerant of those who appreciate life of the unborn and uphold it...much less the innocent unborn babies being slaughtered.

#2. People have a choice in what bumper stickers are on their cars. As a pro-life family, it's our choice, if we so choose, to add a pro-life bumper sticker to our car. Should that bumper sticker show the truth of abortion...fine. It may very well aid a young woman in making the right choice for her child...life.

#3. A drift? The only drift is the slice of wind through your empty cranium cavity.

Whatever we say to each other will not sway us either way in our beliefs. You'll continue with your pro death for babies belief and I'll continue with supporting life. At this point it's probably best to not converse with eachother in the future.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Do you know how to sew?

[walden]

Yes, why?

[Brad’s Gramma]

Last night after I logged off and was in bed, I got the brilliant idea of telling you something. But I was too pooped to pop so I didn't come back out here. Anyway, your offer to help (or check into helping) a CPC in a rather inexpensive way for you would be to make some baby stuff. Then I was wondering WHAT you could make that would be EASY and inexpensive (not knowing what your monetary situation is)...you could get some flannel and use a serger (if you have one!!!) and do a rolled hem around the edges. Really fast, really easy. That way, you could deliver them to the center and get a feel for how they do things.

Just a thought. BG