Southern Baptists shun common prayer

LAKELAND -- Despite the trauma of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, Southern Baptists won't be flocking to interfaith services designed to bring the nation together. Alone among America's major religious groups, the nation's largest Protestant denomination holds fast to its long-standing policy of not praying with others.

For the 15.7 million members of the Southern Baptist Convention, this means not only Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus, but also Christian denominations they do not consider legitimate, including Roman Catholics, Mormons, Seventh-day Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses. "We believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven," said the Rev. Dwayne Mercer, pastor of First Baptist Church of Oviedo, explaining why he would not participate in interfaith gatherings, including one scheduled early next year for Central Florida congregations.

Mercer was elected president of the 1 million-member Florida Baptist Convention on Tuesday, at the group's annual meeting in Lakeland. He was unopposed.

Mercer, 47, said if he attended events with leaders of other faiths, members of his congregation might assume he believes "that all these faiths are legitimate," which he does not.

Even in a time of crisis, praying with Charismatic and Pentecostal Protestants is as far as most Southern Baptists are prepared to go.

In Jacksonville, the Rev. Ted Corley, pastor of Mayfair Baptist Church, organized a citywide service after the tragedy, limiting those invited to Southern Baptists, mainline Protestants and Pentecostals.

"I draw the line with those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as their messiah," he said.

"I tend to shy away from that. . . . As a pastor, I would not feel comfortable with someone praying to Allah or Buddha in my presence. That would go against my position concerning my faith about salvation and Jesus Christ."

Locally, the Rev. James Fortinberry, executive director of the Greater Orlando Baptist Association, said he would be willing to participate in an interfaith panel, but that he also drew the line at common prayer. Refusing to join such prayer gatherings "might be misunderstood," he said. "That's just a risk I take."

The Southern Baptists' course might be self-destructive, said Leo Sandon, distinguished professor of religion and American studies at Florida State University. By refusing to join in religious gatherings in a time of crisis, he said, "they're alienating themselves from the broader community."

"I am very sorry and disappointed that we have not had the presence of our brothers and sisters of the Southern Baptist faith," said the Rev. Fred Morris, executive director of the Florida Council of Churches, who has been active in organizing interfaith gatherings in Central Florida. "It has been deeply rewarding to be sharing in prayers for peace and harmony with persons of a wide variety of faith traditions, and it is disappointing not having such an important group as the Southern Baptists sharing in this very rich experience."

Besides alienating themselves from other faiths, Sandon said, the Southern Baptists "are driving the wedge deeper between themselves and progressive members of the denomination."

Already there are hundreds of such dissident, moderate congregations across the South and Midwest that no longer send delegates to the annual Southern Baptist Convention or to statewide gatherings such as the one in Lakeland. Many of these congregations do not agree with the national denomination's position on interfaith gatherings, Sandon said.

For example, representatives of Sweetwater Baptist Church and College Park Baptist Church joined members of other religions at an Altamonte Springs hotel in the weeks after the terrorist attacks. "Interfaith gatherings build an enormous amount of understanding and respect for different faith traditions," said the Rev. Ron Crawford of College Park Baptist Church. "We have so much to learn from one another. To refuse to participate is nothing more than arrogant and truly unbecoming a Christian."

In contrast with other religious denominations, which in the days after Sept. 11 emphasized understanding, tolerance and respect for the American Muslim community, Southern Baptist missionaries declared that the attacks offered an ideal opportunity to evangelize American Muslims.

The Rev. Peter Shadid -- pastor of the Arabic Evangelical Church a ministry of First Baptist Church of Kissimmee -- said the attacks spurred his conviction that the Gospel should be shared with Arab-Americans. During a tragedy, he said, it is human nature to feel closer to God.

"Muslims are more receptive to know about Jesus Christ than at any other time," he said.

A prominent Southern Baptist leader took another approach, denouncing all of Islam as a religion.

The Rev. Albert Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., said Islam worships a false god with a false faith. Speaking at his seminary's chapel on Oct. 17, Mohler said, "I want to say as a Christian theologian, the biggest problem with Islamic theology is that it kills the soul."

It is a faith that "lies about God" and "presents a false gospel," said Mohler, a rising leader in the denomination. He said "these are difficult things to say. This is not polite."

Mohler, who regularly condemns religious pluralism and its notion that all faiths are equally legitimate, also said in his chapel talk that Jews and Muslims do not serve the same God as Christians.

On CNN's Larry King Live last year, Mohler used some of the same language to describe the Catholic Church.

"As an evangelical, I believe that the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel," Mohler told King.

At the same time, the Southern Baptists have no problem making common political cause with Catholics on issues such as abortion and stem-cell research. They just won't worship with Catholics.

The Rev. Paige Patterson, former president of the Southern Baptist Convention and head of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, N.C., frequently boasts, "I do not have an ecumenical bone in my body."

Patterson was one of the architects of the conservative takeover of the denomination.

Where in the hell does this moron get off??? Legitimate?? How "unbecoming of a Christian" can you get? Roman Cathlolicism was the first church established to name Jesus as our Saviour. The Prodestants got their ideas from the them.

"We believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven," said the Rev. Dwayne Mercer, pastor of First Baptist Church of Oviedo

DUH! "Dwayne you ignorant slut!" When I went to Mass tonight, we proclaimed our faith in Jesus Christ. Did you get bit by one of those rattlesnakes or something?? I think the venom went straight to your brain cells!

And for this a**hole Mohler on the Larry King Show:

"As an evangelical, I believe that the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel," Mohler told King.

...and your proof in the Gospel is WHERE?? Only a false prophet would recognize a "false gospel". This man is the very type who Jesus condemned. This guy doesn't know his Gospel from his hole in his butt. The RC's use THE BIBLE....as a matter of fact, they use in addition, the Apocrypha, the 7 additional books in the bible that these folks conveniently *omit*. This guy needs to go back to Sunday School!

But, as a practicing Catholic-Christian, all I can do is pray for these men, and ask God for His forgiveness in their destructive ignorance. As ask God to grant me patience when dealing with these morons. (oops! Sorry God....)

...done with my rant now, thank you.

Memphis proper is unfortunately a cesspool of crime and gang activity, in which entire areas of the city have been ceded over to gangs and police won't enter. The school system can't produce graduates capable learning to work cash registers or load trucks. This week alone, there's discussion of further lowering school standards. Memphis expands, absorbs and destroys communities in its wake of eastward expansion, ever seeking additional tax revenue for its corrupt infrastructure.

Memphis is the home of 60,000 career criminals, according to FBI statistics of a few years ago. At any given time, there are a hundred thousand outstanding warrants for serving.

I grew up there but moved to Collierville 25 years ago. I think that what you are referring to is the county (Shelby) and the sleeping satellites, the bedroom towns, of which there are 6, I believe, incorporated in Shelby County outside of Memphis.

I grew up Southern Baptist, and I am a member of the dreaded and scorned Bellevue! (Though I often attend Hope Pres with my daughter and friends who belong to that congregation, and we are equally at home I believe.) I know many, many Baptists. I hear them talk in their private moments. They do not speak or think as you imply. Those who are aware of the tenets of their faith (and all churchmembers aren't at Bellevue or at any other church of any other faith) recognize liturgical, canonical and doctrinal differences between Southern Baptists and Catholics. But there does not exist the sort of antipathy you describe. What you describe sounds like Belfast or something. I have and have had doctors, dentists, co-workers, classmates, bosses, subordinates, and girlfriends, who are Catholic. But until now, frankly, I never really thought about it. But, yes, I would draw the line at Islams or other cultists---I wouldn't be so open to them.

I assure you that among the many Southern Baptists I know, those who are well-versed in their faith, Catholics are highly revered for one reason above all others, and that is for Catholicism's uncompromising stand for the sanctity of life in the protection of the unborn. (I think you'll find that most people who sow seeds of ill-will among Baptists and Catholics are pro-abortion, and they see the exploitation of Baptist-Catholic differnces on liturgy as diminishing the overriding congruency the faiths have in their total and unmitigated opposition to abortion.)

Baptists I know love and respect YOUR Holy Father. He is an unflinching advocate for the unborn.

For politically aware Baptists I know, some of our greatest heroes are CATHOLICS: Dr. Alan Keys, William F. Buckley, Pat Buchanan, and on and on.

And in my generation of conservatives (I am age 50) if there is ONE SLAM against Catholics that remains today, it is the errant and rebel Catholic priests (Berrigans, I think was the name?) who committed acts of sedition against the United States during the Vietnam war. Of course, participants in treason come from all religious backgrounds.

I think that the LIBERAL manifestations of the Catholic church---the faction that promotes homosexuality and sides with murderers against their victims---are the things most troubling to conservative Christians who are not Catholic. But there again, MANY people of DIFFFERENT religions promote homosexuality. And many "fundie" Christians who are not Catholic (Chuck Colson??) strongly oppose the death penalty.

Baptists get slammed by the PC police for ordaining only male ministers. Catholics get the same treatment from the same people. Baptists catch heck for its opposition to "womens rights" (code word for any and all abortion, up- to and including partial-birth); so do Catholics.

In Memphis, in my lifetime, Catholic schools were always respected by all. MANY non-Catholics sent their children there for the same reason that many do today: because parents know what the children will receive there in the hands of the Catholic schoolmasters. When public schools began to rot in the wake of court-ordered busing some 30 years ago, and before the rise of church-sponsored schools in the Protestant community, many Protestants opted to send their kids to Catholic schools.

When it comes to friends and acquaintances, I know more than some, fewer than others. And I know many non-Catholics in Memphis whose children have attended or attend Christian Brothers High School, Christian Brothers University, Catholic High School, and also the Catholic girls schools, the name of which escape my old mind now. In fact when I was in high school, it was quite common for parents who could afford it to send their daughters to Sacred Heart and others.

In summary, this is not to say by any means that there are not differences among Christian denominations over Biblical interpretation. And there are Catholics and Pentacosts and others who believe Southern Baptists are dead wrong. There are Christian denominations that believe only they or only a certain number of people will enter heaven. But among Southern Baptists, among Baptist Christian apologists---students of the Bible and of the faith---you will find those who have beliefs that include or exclude from "Biblical" or acceptable dogma---as you will in any faith.

I believe you have expressed a sort of paranoia that is unfounded in reality, at least among Bellevue-ites. (And let me note that our pastor Adrian Rogers is one of the most wonderful, loving and kind men I have ever known or known of.)

Actually, in growing up in Memphis and in the South in the 20th century, there are virtually no etnic or religious distinctions; it's pretty much black and white. I was grown before I realized that kids I grew up with were of Italian or Jewish (like me---I am Jewish lineage), or Polish or Irish origin. We just didn't think that way. I guess you'd say that the normal human tendancies toward prejudice and bigotry were simply directed toward blacks.

Then when I grew up, and visited and met people from the Northeast and Boston and NYC (which, I love, BTW), I found that prejudice and hatred was not reserved by whites only for blacks, but also for "dagos", "wops", "kikes", "polochs," etc. As kids growing up in the South, in Southern Baptist churches and in all-white schools, we had never HEARD these words. And when I did, it was clear from parents and schoolteachers and church-teachers, that these words (just like "nigger") were unacceptable and not polite.

BOTTOM LINE about Southern Baptists, Bellevue Baptist, and---if you follow the lefties' logical thought progression---also Catholics and Jews and all Bible believers: Liberals hate us. Get over it. Liberals hate America. America was founded and thrived upon the principles of the Bible. The left can't stand that. The left cannot abide absolutes. "Right" and "wrong" are concepts the left wishes to obscure first and destroy ultimately. If you think these lefties seek only to chastise those identified as "closed-minded" or bigoted or fundamentalist Christians, think again: after they demonize and villianize and marginalize Southern Baptists, they will move on to Presbyterians and Methodists and even liberal Catholics. Remember: to the left, there can be but one god, and that is the STATE.

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