Christian leader condemns Islam (Preacher Franklin Graham calls Islam ‘wicked, violent’)

"Christians are short-sighted when they jump on the bandwagon of xenophopia and bash Muslims. On issues ranging from parochial education, to abortion (and evolution!) there is much potential common ground between Muslims and Christians."

Are you serious? Yes we agree with them on abortion, but we disagree on whether or not we are infidels who need to be killed. That could be a problem

1492 is hardly 2001. I could go back to show you attrocities from any period from any group. Supposedly we are more civilized now.

Franklin Graham heads a worldwide effort called "Operation Christmas Child" for an organization called "Samaritan's Purse." Last year, more than 4 million shoe boxes with colorful wrapping were made up by participating Christians. THIS YEAR THE GOAL IS FIVE MILLION GIFT BOXES. Inside, are placed gifts to children (boy boxes and girl boxes) with socks, toys, crayons, toothpaste etc. Each volunteer goes out and selects the items and puts his/her own box together, decorates it and delivers it to a receiving location. The organization takes these boxes to poor children throughout the world. They use planes, ships, trucks, donkeys, horses, camels etc to get these boxes to children living in the world's worst conditions. Many of these children have nobody who loves them and even the bright colors of the wrapping and an enclosed photo of the donor tells them somebody loves them and gives them hope. The joy of making up such a box is beyond description.

You will know them by their fruits.

Those are the fruits of Franklin Graham.

I haven't seen such a program operated by Muslims.

It's not the culture but the religion.

Look at the countries that are being controlled and taken over by the Moslems, Indonesia, Phillipines, etc. When the Moslems take control, they start instituting the same policies as the Arab world. Look at the Moslems in this country. Even though many are American citizens, they voice alliance with Ben Ladin's brand of religion. In some areas of our own country at least 50% support Ben Ladin.

You dont even know what you are talking about. The "Tolerance" movement which is primarily anti-Christian

Although I belive in tolerance in my personal life, I have not addressed it on this thread so far. I was merely pointing out that the followers of all religions, at one point or another, have committed a mistake of justifying political aspirations by holy writs. What Islamists are doing today is not different from what the Western world did at the time of crusades, for instance.

There is a difference between the holy books and the churches that stand between them and the masses. If in the past the Hole See committed errors, one should not view them as intrinsic to Christianity. Nowhere in the Bible, for example, will you find Jesus advocating crusades against Muhameddans (which, I as mentioned earlier also incouded mass slaughter of European "infidels" --- pagans and Jews).

Our enemy today is the "muslim church," the clerics that have been teaching for serval generations now hatrid towards teh West. They are the root of the problem, not the books that are holy to Muslums.

Many people, on the contrary, try to find in Quaran some passages that "proof" how instrinsicly malign that religion is. This is certainly not a constructive way to deal with the enemy. More importantly, to trace the actions of the church to the holy books is (i) is morally wrong even we ourselves were free from similar sins, and (ii) we are not, as I pointed out earlier, free from such sins; our Wetern churches, too, have in the past justified their wrong and melevolent actions by the Bible.

I think this point is important, for we are wrestlying with a pig. And one does so, he must ensure that he himself does not become dirty. This reminds me of the words that Golda Meir said to Anwar Sadat when they were at a piece signign: "I forgive you for killing my children. I cannot forgive you, however, for making me kill yours."

Think about that. When we fight evil we should be on our guard not to let it rub on our skins.

A final note regarding The "Tolerance" movement which is primarily anti-Christian: why should I give up the notion of tilerance just becasue some movement hijacked it and, under its guise, advocates anti-Christianity. I don't. Even if I spoke of tolerance --- which I did not, there is no time to be tolerant to evil we face --- this does not make me a part of that movement.

You will know them by their fruits.
Those are the fruits of Franklin Graham.

No one questions the many good deeds of Mr. Graham. But when "you will know by the fruits," look at all the fruits.

The fruit he plucks from the tree by saying that Islam is intrinsically evil is factually incorrect, morally wrong, and does to ourselves more damage that to the enemy. See #205.

It's about time someone prominant had the testicular fortitude to stand up and speak the truth about the roots of Islam...

My,my, I must be really getting old. For millenia, Wetern thinkers have been urging us to cultivate the fortitude of the heart, but you seem to be appealing to an altogether different organ.

What great standards of language and discourse we have attained! After "testicular fortitude," what's next? Vaginal tenderness and nurture?

You shouold ask Mr. Graham to wash your mouth with soap.

Remember ,Islam is a wicked and a evil religion , that doesn't mean all muslims are wicked and evil.

How noble of you, KQQL: you are willing to overlook the minor transfression of a person, such as his religion.

"no current freeper of that name." what the f---?

OK, you have a problem with math. Could you please use slightly better English?

Bush is wrong in his stance. Inviting Muslim leaders to the White House to pray in the East Room ??? Huh? That is not right. Being a Christian doesn't allow for the embracing of other religions

So, inviting an non-Christian person in your house is a non-Christian behavior? And, if we sit down for dinner together, we cannot say our own prayers?

What a nice country we'll have if we continue on this path. A Catholic should not dine with a Protestant, Baptist with a Lutheran. Should never even pray together.

This is why Graham's words are not only wrong but very damaging to us all. A leader shows the way but the flock travels in that direction much farther than the leader has hoped. True leaders understand this and do not make irreposnsible statements such as that of Mr. Graham.

It is is pity, becasue now we need people like he more than ever.

Hello Stupid?.. Mohammed was no prophet (he had a dreadful lifestyle), and Islam is accursed because they are definitively anti-Christ at their core.

Although the above remark was not addressed to me, I would suggest, jdhmichigan, that you refrain from name-calling: this is not nice, does not help your cause, and rather strange to see in a thread about purity of men's spirit.

Now, I am not an expert in Islam, but I know that it is definitely not anti-Christ. For a Christian, Islam is not "pro-Christ" enough, but this very far from being anti-Christ. Do you recon every non-friend as your enemy?

As for Mohammed was no prophet (he had a dreadful lifestyle), there is a bit of a break in logic here. Here is a quote:

proph·et (prft)
n.
a. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed. b. A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression. c. A predictor; a soothsayer. d. The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause.

What does this have to do with "lifestyle?"

Here is more regarding your claim that letting Muslim leaders to the White Hous is anti-Cristian:

News/Current Events Source: Reuters
Published: Sunday November 18, 01:48 PM
Posted on 11/18/01 11:55 AM Pacific by HAL9000
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope John Paul has called a meeting of leaders of all the world's religions to pray for peace and to work to overcome armed conflicts.

First RaceBannon said to KQQL, "Franklin Graham got it right!!" (post #38) to which Buckeroo immediately responded, "You are another racist" (post #39) That was the very first time the word "racist" had appeared on the page. Did Buckeroo mean he considered Mr. Graham to be a racist because of Mr. Graham’s remarks? His comment suggests so. Therefore, Buckeroo would do well to explain to all readers how it is that a negative comment against a religion (which itself professes to be a religion for any race which wants to join in) can be “racist” unless perhaps Buckeroo looks upon some certain race as being the only true Muslims. A religion is a belief. One can change his beliefs once a week if he wishes and that does not change his race. It might make everyone think he is a flake, but his race remains the same. Therefore, it is not “racist” to speak against a religion. One man’s rude statement is another man's basic statement of truth. All rude people are not racists, and all racists are not rude people. But racism and rudeness aside, speaking against a religion is not racism, unless that religion is comprised of only one race, and all people of that race comprise that religion.

It then became a back and forth about whether or not the Koran is or is not anti-Jewish or anti-Christian with Buckeroo saying "The Koran is not an "ANTI-JEWISH" document. You are a loser, pal" to RaceBannon. That is probably a basic difference of opinion. It is possible to be Jewish in religion without being Jewish in race, and there are Christians of all races. It doesn’t actually matter whether the Koran is/is not Anti-Jewish. It only matters if the Koran really came from God. That is the most important thing for individuals to study and determine. Any religion which forbids study-comparisons of itself next to other religions is extremely suspect of being a false religion. If the shoe fits, wear it.

RaceBannon accused Buckeroo of name-calling and he said Buckeroo was either a new person or a terrorist. I would think Buckeroo could be neither a new person OR a terrorist, but the question lingers…does Buckeroo believe it is OK for guys who did happen to be Islamic to kill lots of Americans as they were going about their daily lives? I guess Buckeroo will have to answer that question. Buckeroo said "It is an Anti-Jewish document, with some anti-Christian sentiment thrown in also. Ever read the Talmud? There is enough racism in every religion to go around" Was "it" the Koran? (And my apologies, I have not read the Talmud, and having looked up it's definition on Dictionary.com, I still don't really know what it is). The question, once again, would not be whether the Talmud was racist, but whether the Talmud is from God. Any document from a man could be racist, but God, having made all races, is not racist. And if there is racism in every religion, as Buckeroo said, one must logically realize he is including Islam. Is he therefore condemning every religion, including Islam, since his intial accusation of racism would lead one to think he was against racism? Once again, Buckeroo would have to be the one to answer that question. Does Buckeroo condemn all religions, or does he defend any one religion as an adherent to it?

Zorobabel chimed in at one point and told Buckeroo "Idiots hmmm? That dog won't hunt Achmed." and when I checked back it's true, Buckeroo had indeed posted something about "these idiots" and it is does not help make one’s case to call someone an idiot.

In post #48, Buckeroo said to RaceBannon, " Call me a "terrorist." Do as you may. But you have encroached upon an area that you have no expertise upon. You are walking upon eggshells shouting that Muslims are bad people. You are are on my ignorant list" I doubt that Buckeroo is a terrorist. I doubt that terrorists spend much time fretting over FreeRepublic. How can it be “walking upon eggshells” for RaceBannon to agree with an opinion Buckeroo disagrees with? There is some implication (walking on eggshells) of physical danger to RaceBannon which Buckeroo might like to further explain lest someone think he has terrorist tendencies. It would, after all, be worse for society for one of it's members to be a non-racist terrorist than a non-terrorist racist. I personally think he was just a little brash in his expression. Buckeroo, is it dangerous to someone to be on your “ignorant list”? RaceBannon's response to Buckeroo on this was to say "Well, that you say...makes me proud to be an enemy of someone who refuses to read the source document for yourself, show which of us is smarter...me!". That was the last comment on that particular page, and I refuse to go further than that page. It is better to try not to be enemies unless that is the only option. All options have probably not been exhausted here. I hope that was the end of the argument (which no one won, at least to that point). Because now I have real work I am supposed to be doing.

I take back what I said about nobody winning the argument. Buckeroo must have quit FreeRepublic after the argument. RaceBannon won the debate and Buckeroo skulked away!

Good old Buckeroo didn't have much argument to begin with. I hope Graham stands his ground. Just compare Jesus's holy life of prayer, sound teaching, good works and healing miracles, against Mohammad's murders, robberies, and child molestations. What more needs to be said? Islam's founder was an evil violent man, and so are his teachings.

Sweetheart, You Rock!! Want dinner sometime??

Awww, thanks, the whole debate was just too juicy to pass up. Heehee.

"Mohammed was merely a prophet of God."

No, Mohammed was clearly NOT a prophet of God.

1John 4:1-3 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

Mohammed denied that Jesus was the Christ, the son of the living God, Therefore he is the spirit of Antichrist, as John wrote above.

"Now, I am not an expert in Islam, but I know that it is definitely not anti-Christ."

You are deeply confused.

Islam is by definition Anti-Christ
See post #218 above

My, my, I must really be getting old...

I don't know how old you are, but you sure are a pompous little squirt. I never heard so much oily sanctimonious bullshit since Jimmuh Carter was president.