Ditto!
Socialists in Congress? Click on the zeppelin, Grasshopper.
Posted on 11/12/2001 9:06:00 AM PST by t-shirt
Jet 'exploded into pieces'
Monday, 12 November, 2001
BBC Residents watched as firefighters battled the blaze
Eyewitnesses have spoken of their horror at seeing an Airbus A300 crash into a residential area of New York. Witnesses reported seeing a fire or explosion on one side of the aircraft as an engine fell off.
The plane then crashed into the Rockaway area of Queens.
I saw the flames and the smoke and I just thought, 'Oh no, not again'
Milena Owens, who lives yards from the crash site, said she was putting up Thanksgiving decorations on her window when she saw the plane fly far too low.
"I heard the explosion and I looked out the window and saw the flames and the smoke and I just thought, 'Oh no, not again'."
"The whole house shook," said Gus Cholakis, who lives 100 yards from the spot where some of the wreckage came to rest.
Resident's prayers
"I looked out the window, the first thing I saw was a huge fireball right outside."
Mr Cholakis, 38, said he had known 13 of those lost when the World Trade Center collapsed.
This neighbourhood has been through enough
Gus Cholakis
He admitted he was praying he had not lost more friends, adding: "This neighbourhood has been through enough."
John Maroney, 47, said the engine plummeted onto a Texaco petrol station near his house, and pieces of plane were only a few hundred yards away.
"That's probably what shook us up from our beds. The whole house jumped.
'Climbing position'
"We were all out there with fire extinguishers and hoses, but we couldn't do much."
Ethan Moses said he had seen the plane climbing in the sky after take-off.
It was travelling to the left slightly and then it just nose dived straight down
Ethan Moses , "It was in a climbing position and when I looked up I saw fire on the left side of the engine," he told CNN.
The wing appeared to separate from the rest of the plane, which veered to the left and then plunged into a nose dive, he said.
"It was travelling to the left slightly and then it just nose dived straight down," Mr Moses said, adding that fire spread on the ground, moving from house to house within seconds.
Phyllis Paul said she heard the plane's engine drone louder as it descended.
Falling metal
"It was very, very loud. Because of what happened on 11 September, it gave me a chill," she told CNN.
"It was getting louder and louder and I looked out the window. I saw a piece of metal falling from the sky."
The wings were going backwards and forwards like it was trying to balance itself
Phyllis Paul
Beverly Browne, from Brooklyn, said she saw white smoke coming from the plane before it crashed.
"The wings were going backwards and forwards like it was trying to balance itself. There was white smoke coming out of it.
"It just couldn't seem to stabilise itself. The next thing I knew it had crashed."
? David Solero was driving over a bridge by Rockaway when he saw fire on the left hand side of the plane.
He told CNN: "We looked up and saw the fire coming from the left hand side - it could have been an explosion."
Plane 'veered'
Other witnesses told reporters that the fire or explosion was on the right hand side of the plane.
Mr Solero added: "It could have been the engine was on fire.
I was scared it was going to veer towards us and hit us - we stopped dead in our tracks
David Solero, "It flew right over us, started to veer to the left then it veered back right.
"I was scared it was going to veer towards us and hit us - we stopped dead in our tracks.
"We saw something fly off the plane."
One woman fled her home, fearing she could be killed.
Concorde-like sound
She told CNN: "It was a huge, loud sound. It seemed so loud that I was like ducking almost.
"I just heard - it sounded like Concorde flying too low and then it just hit.
Eyewitness
-- "It blew up into a huge fireball and I jumped out the second floor of my house." "It hit the house behind me and I think it exploded into pieces."
"I went over the deck in the front of my house because the back was so hot."
"We were just in shock and we had to evacuate two streets away. It was so horrible." "There is a lot of terror here. Everybody is in shock."
"I was very, very lucky."
------------------------------------------------
No, I want to see more information. Eyewitness reports. CVF and FDR results. ATC tapes and radar tracks. You seem quite content to come to a conclusion based on seeing only a subset of the information.
You tell me who is jumping to conclusions...
You got me...
;^]
Sorry, I thought it might have been the same old subset thing.
Ditto!
Socialists in Congress? Click on the zeppelin, Grasshopper.
Airbus is made in France, right? ... like Peugeot - the Yugo's cousin.
old Buddy Hacket joke:
European Heaven is where the cooks are French, the police are British, the mechanics are German, the lovers are Italian, and the Swedish run the government.
European Hell is where the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swedish, and the Italians run the government.
Ahhh, now I understand. You know that mylar works just as well as aluminum foil, and is far lighter and more comfortable.
Then why was it delayed for an hour on the ground before takeoff?????
How about because someone became suspicious of one of the guys that had done maintenance? Wanted to double-check. But, the quick check failed to turn up the sabotage.
Socialists in Congress? Click on the zeppelin, Grasshopper.
OMG, please... do not start trying to think for me; you need to focus a little harder on your own thoughts first.
It's not like you're not getting plenty of help - post #59 and #62 said it straight.
I believe that the latest self-search software has also eliminated the problem of posts to similarly named people showing up in one's self search, although it still happens if you try to do a "to:" or "by:" query on someone else.
On Fox 5 NY a man named Kenneth Brown said this to Rosanna ? and John ?
John: Ken, you there?
Ken, yes yes I am.
John: Can you tell us what you saw Ken?
Ken: Alright, I was out on the boat about a hundred twentieth a hundred nineteenth st when un we stopped the boat cause we have an engine..yah know the engine was making weird sounds, so we stopped the boat and we were back by the engine and I heard a popping sound...not like a a a I cant even say it was an explosion, it was more like a pop and then like a whishing sound and then part of the wing came off.
John:Where was the plane at that moment?
Ken: Right over the bay. Right over the bay
John So is it almost right above you?
Ken: Yes, kinda to the north of us, cause we where more to the east channel drive at that time, on that side of Jamaica Bay and um the pieces that came off the wing...flew into the um tail and tore the tail off and as soon as that happened the plane went belly up towards us and towards the east and it just dove straight down, like the uhh the belly of the plane actually turned toward the south and it went straight down into the ground.
John: So you saw some big pieces of this plane come off...
Ken:We was the first ones on the scene and then the police boat came and we helped them pick up parts of the boat..uh..parts a the plane. We actually took up the blue A off of the tail we put that in the boat. Ummm the picture of the....another piece of the whole top of the tail with the flag on it was laying in shallow water. We took up allot of pieces of the boat...the plane we put it on the boat and took them in to the police boat an helped load em onto the police boat but a a the engine
Rosannabreaks in: Well it sounds like you have some crucial information Ken...
His voice rising Ken says: See the engine...everybody keeps saying the engine fell off...if it fell off it fell off on the way down....
John:U Huh
Ken: That plane as soon as its tail came off it just bellied up and went straight down, so yah know people saying yah know the engine came off, but that came off after the fact. Now as far as explosion, something was happening over the bay, something made the wing shatter and took of the tail. and uh the way I seen it , it still looked like it had its engines on as it was going down.
John: Have you spoken to anyone there uh Ken have you talked to any members of the..
Ken Yeh a yeh police I gave the police a guy in a police boat my name and all that and when I was helping em with ya know the parts of the plane
Woman Ken you sound very shacking up , I'm sure this has..
Ken: I'm still shacking, its a its just a terrible sight. Ya know its something ya see on a movie Ya know how the plane..ya just just knew it..that it wouldn't, as it was going down I was saying hit the ocean hit the ocean thinking ya know maybe it cleared, its only 4 blocks wide but the plane just turned over and came straight down. It was..its a sight to see..it was ya know stunned me
Woman Were you able to keep your composure and think clearly at that point?
Ken: Yes, actually actually the things was starting to fly down toward the boat so we backed up a little bit toward the the trestles the A train trestle and then we came back to see if they was any...ah cause at one time I thought I could see a seat but I wasn't even sure, Nothing heavy came down, everything floated down
Woman: Do you think you got everything that was in the water?
Ken Mostly everything that was floating yah. Cause a the police boat came like the within 5 minutes..3 minutes maybe but that plane was gone in 6 seconds, when I heard the popping sound and seen the flames seen the uh wing hit the back tail an that came off it couldn't a been more than 3 seconds for it was down
John: So your saying the wing came off and hit the tail?
Ken: Parts yes...the whole section of the tail was what we recovered. The A the little flag on the top of the tail section that whole section, like the 30 foot top of that was stuck in the sand...in the water about 5 feet of water but there was other pieces floating around..as a matter of fact I took the blue A and we pulled that part on the boat and brought it over to the police boat. They was asking for our help then allot of boats came by allot of police boats
John:Nick your sitting hearing what Ken is saying that if any any questions for him?
Nick Well um it sounds like Ken is your describing is a again that something exploded uh to cause these pieces of the wing to come out. Is that what you sug..
Ken: Exactly something happened to that wing that sent pieces of it back to the tail.
John was it the left wing or the right wing Ken do ya know?
Ken ahh see now like my friend..well.. a it bellied up to me and a when it bellied up to the east it a looked like the right wing cause the left wing still looked intact to me. It looked like the right wing had come off..or part of it
John: well that would fit with what the
(over talk..engine..saying..?)Nick: Unnn but again Ken Kinda saying the engine fell off after the fact but still potentially the engine exploding could could cause pieces of the engine to fly I mean what may have happened was a a series of events where pieces if the engine actually flew back and struck the tail or even that pieces of the engine and the wing at the same time so a but a Kens observations of the tail is a very interesting clue
John Do you live around there Ken?
Ken Yes, I live in Hamilton beach right off Jamaica Bay and a thats the whole thing..That plane would have went over Rockaway cause it was still like level until the tail came off and then it just bellied up and spun around and came straight down uh otherwise it would..that tail..as soon as it shattered thats when the plane lost everything
Nick: Now Ken did you see actual flames coming out of an engine that was..?
Ken: There was flames on the belly of the plane..I don't know weather it was the engine or ya know, but the plane bellied up towards us as it was going down and flames in the a..in that vicinity of the engines or whatever like underneath the plane
Well Ken we a thank you for your time
Ken: No Problem
It is difficult to know what to believe until M. Rivero tells us what to believe. Uhm!!!!
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